Export of Copyright Material

[Bidmaron]

Somewhere I thought I remember Rob explaining how to deal with copyrighted content market material and sharing that material between your realms. I cannot locate that post.

What I recall is that you cannot export copyrighted material, but you can import material you own into any realm you want. I cannot remember how he recommended dealing with revising that material.

So, I guess my question is, what exactly can you export if a topic is copyrighted material from content market? What if you revise a content market topic? Can you export that to import into one of your other realms?

[daplunk]

From memory a content provider can mark the content as restricted which stops the export option on the content. Having not seen it though, I'm just guessing.

[Bidmaron]

So you still won't be able to print material you own because you cannot export it. Boy, that will make the print maniacs upset.

[kbs666]

Exported files can be password protected which seems to protect the material from having the images removed and prevents the material from being exported from realms into which it has been imported.

I would assume that the underlying DB record is marked so editing the topic and even changing its name might not free a topic from such.

[daplunk]

Well given the only print ability we have now is provided by a community member and is not supported... it's hardly something to get angry over. I would not expect any printable content to come out of WOTC if that license ever happens.

I don't get the need to print myself. But each to their own.

I wonder how many thousands of dollars in ink it would cost to print my realm actually...

[Bidmaron]

There is no way I could see to export only the entries modified since a given date/time, right?

[AEIOU]

I would think timestamps for entries are definitely available to RW but maybe not to us end users. Changes are trackable in RW. This sounds like a good thing to request in the Request Forum for the advanced exports.

[EightBitz]

So you still won't be able to print material you own because you cannot export it. Boy, that will make the print maniacs upset.

*Gets out a pair of binoculars and looks around.*

Oh, hey, there. Over there. Hey, Bid, I think I see were your barbs landed. Waaaaay over there. Wow, they really missed the mark.

No, not upset. Not even close. In fact, I'm quite pleased. Rob has said from the start that one of his concerns with printing was the protection of copyrighted material. This isn't news. This isn't a surprise. This was the expectation from day one of me asking about the ability to print.

And from day one, I've said I understood Rob's position on this point. I have some frustrations with the copyright holders, but not with Rob wanting to stay in business and wanting to stay legal. But still, all I wanted was the ability to print my own content, and I have that.

Not only do I have that, but since I was able to write my own script, I was able to tailor the output to my specific taste. And I've got a good set of command line options that allow me to make each conversion a little bit different. I can include inline images at different sizes, according to percentage. I can print stat blocks inline or just leave them as clickable links. I can choose to indent or not. And the output comes out looking really nice.

After I wrote the script, even though I wrote it primarily for myself, and tailored it to my own taste, I decided to share it with the community here. I have enjoyed the fruits of the labors of everyone here who have contributed to the community packs and to other data sets, so I give back when I can.

I'm no expert with data sets. I get frustrated with them rather easily sometimes. And they are very time consuming. But this script ... this I was able to do. So I shared it for your and for everyone else here.

And make no mistake, it's not JUST for printing. Once you export it to HTML, you can transfer it to a tablet if you wish. You can have access to view your realms anywhere you go, with or without internet access. You can be kicking back on the beach, or in an underground, concrete bunker with no cell or satellite signal. But so long as you transferred the file to your tablet, you're good to go.

You can print to a PDF file for whatever reason you might want to. Maybe you use a VTT that allows you to incorporate PDFs as handouts.

Maybe you want to format your document more professionally in a word processor or desktop publishing application. Well, now you can either import the HTML directly or copy and paste larger blocks of text instead of having to go snippet by snippet.

Other people may come along and do a better job than I've done, but for now at least, I can point at this thing and say, "I did this. I made this possible. Not just for myself, but for the whole community here."

So yes, I am a "print maniac", but in the best possible way. And far from upset, I'm quite giddy. :-D

[EightBitz]

Well given the only print ability we have now is provided by a community member and is not supported... it's hardly something to get angry over. I would not expect any printable content to come out of WOTC if that license ever happens.

I don't get the need to print myself. But each to their own.

I wonder how many thousands of dollars in ink it would cost to print my realm actually...

It's not just about printing. It's about flexibility and portability. If you want to convert your export to a readable document and transfer it to your tablet, you can do that now. If you want to import the content of your realm into some other application to format it differently, you can do that now. If you want to share some of your realm content with someone who doesn't have Realm Works, you can do that now. If you want to display your realm content on your own web site, you can do that now.

[BigSkyRPG]

It's not just about printing. It's about flexibility and portability. If you want to convert your export to a readable document and transfer it to your tablet, you can do that now. If you want to import the content of your realm into some other application to format it differently, you can do that now. If you want to share some of your realm content with someone who doesn't have Realm Works, you can do that now. If you want to display your realm content on your own web site, you can do that now.

These are some valid issues you raise. To be honest, as much as I love Realm Works, it's still not a complete solution for me (yet). Consequently, my work flow (prep, world building, etc.) looks like this:

Scrivener = World building, writing, backstories, all writing pre-realm works. RW doesn't have solid editing and error correction or printing, etc. Therefore, my base copy of my RW realm exists here. I consider this my development environment. I develop and print all campaign guides, lore sheets, cheat sheets from here.

Realm Works = Once I'm through with development and my content is ready for prime-time, I "deploy" from my scrivener project to Realm Works. I use realm works as my live game tool. I don't want to look in books or any other source, everything to run my games exists here.

VTT. I have a custom built game table with a recessed 46inch flatscreen in the center and I run all of my maps and content on the tv screen in the game table. I use various 3rd party apps to project my maps as RW is still maturing in this area.

Obsidian Portal. Campaign Notes, Session Notes, Revealed Lore, World Atlas. This is the "group" for my campaigns. All of the players at my table go here. This is our Campaign Bible, Lexicon, etc. We tried the player view and client versions of RW. Players didn't like that and wanted a more web-centric way of accessing our campaign.

My point is, rather than work hard to find a way to make RW do everything I want, I love it and use it for what it does right now and then look for other tools that handle the other components of my development work flow and live games.

[EightBitz]

These are some valid issues you raise. To be honest, as much as I love Realm Works, it's still not a complete solution for me (yet). Consequently, my work flow (prep, world building, etc.) looks like this:

Scrivener = World building, writing, backstories, all writing pre-realm works. RW doesn't have solid editing and error correction or printing, etc. Therefore, my base copy of my RW realm exists here. I consider this my development environment. I develop and print all campaign guides, lore sheets, cheat sheets from here.

Realm Works = Once I'm through with development and my content is ready for prime-time, I "deploy" from my scrivener project to Realm Works. I use realm works as my live game tool. I don't want to look in books or any other source, everything to run my games exists here.

VTT. I have a custom built game table with a recessed 46inch flatscreen in the center and I run all of my maps and content on the tv screen in the game table. I use various 3rd party apps to project my maps as RW is still maturing in this area.

Obsidian Portal. Campaign Notes, Session Notes, Revealed Lore, World Atlas. This is the "group" for my campaigns. All of the players at my table go here. This is our Campaign Bible, Lexicon, etc. We tried the player view and client versions of RW. Players didn't like that and wanted a more web-centric way of accessing our campaign.

My point is, rather than work hard to find a way to make RW do everything I want, I love it and use it for what it does right now and then look for other tools that handle the other components of my development work flow and live games.

Sure. I love Scrivener. I've got a lot of stuff there. Stories I've written. Campaign ideas. I've done some project tracking with it, and a few other things. It's great. I'm not saying there's any one, right way to do things. I'm saying it's great to have options.

What happens with me is that I'll put some things in Evernote or some things in Scrivener or some things in One Note, or I'll write some things in a notebook (paper). Then I start losing track of where I put what. The fewer places I put things, the easier it becomes to keep track of them.

I'm not saying everyone has to do things my way. I'm just saying here's an option. If you want it, you're welcome to it. If it's not your thing, no worries. :-)

[MaxSupernova]

I'm glad to get my data out in any format.

Call me a print maniac if you want but it still makes me shake my head that it takes a user-created script to provide such basic functionality.

Any program you can put your data in to should let you get it out, preferably in a format that doesn't require a programmer to make use of.

[daplunk]

I view think from the different side of the table.

To truly make this application successful license agreements are required. Some of those license holders will be very nervous about printing.

If I was LW I would not implement printing until I completely understood the impact of the decision to add it. If it came down to a WOTC license or printing... I would pick the WOTC license.

[EightBitz]

I view think from the different side of the table.

To truly make this application successful license agreements are required. Some of those license holders will be very nervous about printing.

If I was LW I would not implement printing until I completely understood the impact of the decision to add it. If it came down to a WOTC license or printing... I would pick the WOTC license.

Sure, but Rob has said they have a way to address this. For licensed content, they can lock the realm to prevent export. Again, I have some issues with the copyright holders themselves, but from Rob's point of view, I understand this, and I fully support his decision to keep keep his business in good standing.

And I appreciate that he as been straightforward about this from the beginning.

[kbs666]

Isn't Hasbro still refusing to put the 5e core books out as PDF's? If they're still stuck in the paradigm of everyone must buy the hardcover books as their profit vehicle they would view things like RW as a way to lose money.

[Strategon]

Isn't Hasbro still refusing to put the 5e core books out as PDF's? If they're still stuck in the paradigm of everyone must buy the hardcover books as their profit vehicle they would view things like RW as a way to lose money.

They have licensed it now to Fantasy Grounds and Roll 20; however, as far as I know pdfs are still not even on the table. This was brought up several times during Adventurers League Meetings when I was still a coordinator.

[rob]

Somewhere I thought I remember Rob explaining how to deal with copyrighted content market material and sharing that material between your realms. I cannot locate that post.

What I recall is that you cannot export copyrighted material, but you can import material you own into any realm you want. I cannot remember how he recommended dealing with revising that material.

So, I guess my question is, what exactly can you export if a topic is copyrighted material from content market? What if you revise a content market topic? Can you export that to import into one of your other realms?

I think you're referring to Post #14 in this thread: http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=57424

If I'm wrong, let me know and I'll try to locate the correct post for you. :)

[Bidmaron]

Yes, Rob, that was it. Thanks.

So, to summarize the answer lying within that post:

Until the real cloud-driven import/export becomes reality, you will not be able to export tailored protected material to other realms, but you can copy a tailored realm and use that potentially many times in other realms.

[rob]

Yes, Rob, that was it. Thanks.

So, to summarize the answer lying within that post:

Until the real cloud-driven import/export becomes reality, you will not be able to export tailored protected material to other realms, but you can copy a tailored realm and use that potentially many times in other realms.

Correct. The moment we let users export protected material, it becomes a massive security hole. So we can't do that. But we CAN let users re-use stuff by copying it in a secure manner. It's definitely not perfect, but it's better than nothing. And this is all a stepping stone on the way to the proper, long-term solution that allows everything to be customized and re-used in a secure manner for publishers. :)

[Bidmaron]

Very understandable, Rob, and, again, my hat's off to you folks again for such miraculous work on even the import/export that we have now. Please don't take my request for a "modified since" export tag as a gripe, because it is certainly not. I wish you folks all the success as you launch your content market and improve your revenue stream.

Speaking of which, I assume somewhere around that time you will present your cloud storage subscription system?

[rob]

Very understandable, Rob, and, again, my hat's off to you folks again for such miraculous work on even the import/export that we have now. Please don't take my request for a "modified since" export tag as a gripe, because it is certainly not. I wish you folks all the success as you launch your content market and improve your revenue stream.

Speaking of which, I assume somewhere around that time you will present your cloud storage subscription system?

I did NOT interpret that thread as a gripe. It's a request like any other. I just need to understand the motivations/needs better, since the implementations that users assume are "right" are rarely the best way forward. By understanding the actual end goal, we can figure out how best to deliver it. :)

The server access stuff is definitely on the horizon. As we've indicated previously, the clock will resume for everyone around the time the Content Market launches. So the server access subscriptions will become a point of concern for users soon after that.