Realm Works Special News Update

[BJ]

Realm Works Special News Update

Greetings from Lone Wolf Development! Many of you have been anxiously awaiting the Realm Works Content Market, and we’re pleased to announce your wait is almost over. The pieces are falling into place, and we’re on track to launch the Content Market in December!

In mid-November, we’ll be deploying a major Realm Works release with numerous refinements and quality-of-life enhancements that offer something for everyone. This release will also include critical new aspects of the Content Market for the Beta Team to test. From there, we’ll focus on tying up loose ends and fixing whatever issues the Beta Team uncovers, which we anticipate will take a number of weeks.

Those of you who’ve been following our Realm Works journey are likely sensing a shift from our previous discussions regarding the Content Market. For example, there’s no mention here of the multi-phase rollout that we previously outlined. The truth of the matter is, our vision for the Content Market was too grand to be created in the time frame we gave ourselves. We wanted perfection! We wanted bells and whistles and all the things! Unfortunately, all those things take time – especially for a team of our limited size.
Shortly after Gen Con, we had an epiphany. If we adjusted our approach, took a small detour, and scaled back the initial sophistication of the Content Market, we could quickly deliver the core functionality we’ve been promising. This would give users a solution NOW and allow us to continue working toward our original vision without dragging out the release and trying your patience further. So that’s exactly what we’ve done! The revised Content Market puts the core features and published content you’ve been waiting for into your hands as swiftly as possible. We’re pretty excited about this, and we hope you will be too!

Alongside these many improvements, we’ll be introducing new editions of Realm Works! Restructuring the current product options allows us to offer something for everyone, making sure those who like to keep it simple can get started with Realm Works inexpensively. And, of course, users who want it all will be able to purchase everything they need via the new editions as well.
Finally, we’ll be making adjustments to some of our terminology. For example, you’ll start to see changes to the name used to define our “Cloud Service” options. FAQs, future updates, and sales pages will be revised to use the term “Server Access” instead, as we feel this more accurately describes what we offer. In addition, users who are leveraging Server Access now can expect us to resume the clock for everyone early next year.

We look forward to reaching the end of this long journey, so we can begin the ongoing adventure of making Realm Works the best campaign management tool it can be. Keep an eye out for smaller updates with additional details over the next couple months on our website, forums, and social media. Thank you again for your continued support and patience!

Kickstarter Backer Notes

We’ll be delivering the content promised to Kickstarter backers as it becomes available to the public. Please look for more details on this subject through Kickstarter updates as we get closer to the actual release. In addition, all Kickstarter backers who elected to eschew Server Access (i.e. Pack Members) will be granted the service free for a limited time when we launch the Content Market. This will ensure you have the opportunity to give it a try, plus it will enable backers who have been asking to obtain Server Access the ability to do so.

New and Improved Features

While our primary development focus has been the Content Market, we have a plethora of new features headed your way for campaign management as well! Here’s a sampling of the new capabilities you can expect to see in the upcoming November and December releases:

• Copy a complete realm
• Export a realm, or a portion of a realm, for sharing with other users (or for use in a separate realm of your own)
• Import shared content from other users and weave it all together into your own realm
• Detailed support for pre-defined game system structures, with initial support for Pathfinder, D&D 5E, and Savage Worlds
• Share game system structure definitions among users, making it easy to leverage the work of others to quickly adopt tailored structures for assorted game systems
• Automatically apply name fixups across all content whenever a topic or article name is changed
• Streamlined workflow for adding content to Player View when showcasing your world to your players during the game
• Optionally show the names of selected map pins within Player View
• Optionally disable the automatic creation of default text snippets within new topics and articles
• Quickly add plural versions of names to topics and articles (e.g. “Orc” becomes “Orcs”)
• Free content for everyone, including Isle of Kandril (a small setting and adventure we commissioned from Super Genius Games), We Be Goblins from Paizo, and hopefully some additional surprises that we’re still finalizing the details on
• And much more…

[Grey Mage]

+1 for getting copy, export and sharing of realms

[daplunk]

:) Christmas presents all round. Sounds great guys.

[QueenOfWinter]

Fantastic news! Excited to see it all come together!

[Nikmal]

Looking forward to testing this! :)

[MaxSupernova]

Can you please provide more detail about exactly what functionality will be left out of the Content Market to get this release out?

What functionality did you decide to cut for this release?

[Tharmiones]

Can you please provide more detail about exactly what functionality will be left out of the Content Market to get this release out?

What functionality did you decide to cut for this release?

This!
And what the differences between "New editions" will be.

As for the date: We will see when it will be actually available.

[rob]

There will be a number of additional updates forthcoming in the weeks ahead. These updates will outline the new editions and delve into further detail regarding the new features and enhancements you can expect.

To be honest, I don't anticipate that we'll be spending any time on what capabilities are not yet present. We'll be focusing on the capabilities that ARE present, since there's going to be a LOT of new stuff you can do with Realm Works, not to mention the Content Market. Some of the things we originally planned to do one way will now be accomplished via another approach. And we still intend to continue working towards the original vision, so the entire product should evolve into everything we planned. The key difference will be that you'll all have a wealth of new capabilities that should give everyone the vast majority of things they're wanting and expecting. That will eliminate the existing tension caused by everyone being stuck waiting while we're working to create the grand vision.

As to the dates, I don't begrudge anyone for being skeptical. We intentionally waited to announce anything until we were just weeks away from releasing something. So we're pretty confident we'll hit the dates we've stated. Either way, it won't be very long before we'll all know for sure. :)

[Chemlak]

Very much looking forward to this!

Though personally I really, really can't stand seeing "and much more..." on a bullet-point list, because every single time I've seen it (anecdote ahoy!) it's been either one tiny extra thing, or utterly impossible to determine after the fact.

Not sure I've ever seen it from LWD, so I'll try really hard not to hold that against anyone, but my initial response was "ugh, groan".

And just to clarify: do copy, import, and export require Server Access? Pretty sure I know the answer, but just want to be certain.

[rob]

@Chemlak: There's a healthy list of "much more", including one thing that I'm certain you will personally view as a very good thing. :) That list will be detailed in upcoming update(s) here on the forums, but it made no sense to list them all in the announcement we just put out. We just wanted to give everyone a sample of what's coming.

Copy, import, and export do NOT require Server Access. This is a major shift from our previous plans, and it derives from the new approach we're taking. There are some profound benefits with this new approach, as well as some significant liabilities. It's a double-edged sword. My guess is that most users here on the forums will view this favorably, but the overall RW user base may ultimately think differently. Only time will tell...

[Chemlak]

Looking forward to seeing what "much more" there is, then! If anyone's going to shatter my preconceptions of corporate waffle, it's LWD.

Also, glad to see I was right about copy/import/export, that's a huge deal, since it will (apparently therefore) let us users share stuff offline.

Further, on the topic of "double-edged sword", the question of copyright is going to come up, and I'm sure you've thought of it, but I'll say that we're thinking of it, too.

All that said, GO TO BED! Unless you're currently in Europe, Africa or the Middle-East, you should be asleep!

Aside: There's only one thing I'm well-known for around here (that I know of), so does that mean I might have to change my utterly unofficial title in the not-too-distant?

[rob]

@Chemlak: Yes, the export/import mechanism WILL allow users to freely share stuff offline. That's both a benefit and liability, on many different levels.

Yes, copyright protection is a key concern. All the content we provide will be very secure and tied to individual user accounts, so users won't be able to re-share anything we sell. We'll also be making it possible for users to secure what they create, although that can't be as sophisticated. The mechanism we let users employ will utilize password-based encryption, but that won't stop an unscrupulous user from giving away the file and password. That's one of the key liabilities of doing it this way instead of always orchestrating it through the server.

I'm sure there will probably also be some users who enter copyrighted material and share it. If it's done offline, we won't be able to control it and intercede on behalf of a publisher (like we would if we controlled it all through our server). Fortunately, based on our experiences with Hero Lab, I don't think this will be a major area of concern. We've had lots of users purchase data packages from us that are also available through community support (all OGL), so it seems that users are generally happy to pay for stuff if the quality and utility is good.

Your self-anointed title of "Chief Calendar Champion" is still safely intact. We're not implementing calendars yet. :( However, being in Europe does highlight one particular drawback with respect to using Realm Works, especially as it pertains to real world dates. <hint> <hint>

As for bed, these are the core hours for my "second job". My "first job" (or "day job") is coordinating all the business stuff, solving technical challenges with team members, and everything that requires communicating with others during the day. My "second job" (or "night job") is doing big chunks of the development work for RW, which can best be done when everybody else is sleeping. So that's what I'm doing every night. Right now, I'm allowing myself to get distracted with forum posts, which I will probably be kicking myself for tomorrow. :)

Thanks!

[Tharmiones]

All that said, GO TO BED! Unless you're currently in Europe, Africa or the Middle-East, you should be asleep!


Actually it's noon right now in europe and at least my game session is starting in a few hours so no more sleep. :)
Can't wait for more information. Wish I had already chosen the Beta Team Level during Kickstarted instead just Alpha Wolf. :(

[Chemlak]

Your self-anointed title of "Chief Calendar Champion" is still safely intact. We're not implementing calendars yet. :( However, being in Europe does highlight one particular drawback with respect to using Realm Works, especially as it pertains to real world dates. <hint> <hint>

Altered... date... format...

*swoon*

Also, I'm lazy, so changing my title isn't something I'm really all that fussed about hurrying to get done.

Believe me, I'm a very happy grinning chappy right now.

(Just need an announcement about a deal with WotC for 3E FR for RW and I'll do my best Cheshire Cat impression.)

[rob]

Got it in one! :)

Quick disclaimer: This one's not in yet. We've determined how to resolve it, so it SHOULD make it in. The caveat is if there's a wrinkle in the guts of the calendar mechanism that invalidates the approach we've identified and that we never saw coming. Barring that unlikely event, it should be in sometime this coming week.

[Exmortis]

HOLY crap on a stick!

Copy, export, sharing player content? /THUD......
.
.
.
Sorry fainted there!

So looking forward to these features, I have got so much time and effort in entering classic modules, which may have looked rather foolish, now looks like time well spent!!!!

Rob, a point of note. If you keep the same level of quality for RW that you have for HL, and support RW player work like you do HL, we will all be happy to buy our products from LWD. No company I have ever dealt with supports the community work as much as LWD does, even going to as far to warn authors when major changes could cause issues and offering solution?

LWD may not be big in size, but its big on delivery within its capability, and that's what keeps me here.

I have one question, which if its actual answer is forth coming, please feel free to wait. But I am assuming that we will be able to buy what seems to be a "rules wrapper" for our custom work. That is to say, my Telon campaign is rules agnostic, with exception to race design, so I could buy say Pathfinder and 5e rules and apply them to two copies of the realm (since we can make a full copy soon)?

Never been so happy to see winter....

[rob]

I have one question, which if its actual answer is forth coming, please feel free to wait. But I am assuming that we will be able to buy what seems to be a "rules wrapper" for our custom work. That is to say, my Telon campaign is rules agnostic, with exception to race design, so I could buy say Pathfinder and 5e rules and apply them to two copies of the realm (since we can make a full copy soon)?

Mostly yes, with some big caveats and certain critical limitations. There are some strict rules that you'll need to follow, and it's even possible that you've already violated those rules without even knowing it. This is something that has changed in some fundamental ways from the original plan with our revised approach, and there are some pain points involved in making the shift. This is a subject that we'll definitely need to outline in more detail in a future update. So stay tuned.

[Chemlak]

Got it in one! :)

Quick disclaimer: This one's not in yet. We've determined how to resolve it, so it SHOULD make it in. The caveat is if there's a wrinkle in the guts of the calendar mechanism that invalidates the approach we've identified and that we never saw coming. Barring that unlikely event, it should be in sometime this coming week.

I have every confidence that you have Top Men working on it. Top Men.

HOLY crap on a stick!

Copy, export, sharing player content? /THUD......

I know, right?!

[Exmortis]

Mostly yes, with some big caveats and certain critical limitations. There are some strict rules that you'll need to follow, and it's even possible that you've already violated those rules without even knowing it. This is something that has changed in some fundamental ways from the original plan with our revised approach, and there are some pain points involved in making the shift. This is a subject that we'll definitely need to outline in more detail in a future update. So stay tuned.

Coolio. Thanks for the reply, I will look forward to this information as it comes.

Its not by any means a deal breaker, it was just something that sounds pretty damn awesome. End of day, if we can buy rules as add ins to mechanical reference, Bestiaries as importable works, then I d be extremely happy.

But I own HL and nearly every Pathfinder add in, so really not a big deal if my realm has broken core rules. I personally will be always using HL for character and encounter management. When ready, it will have a blank .por for players to use, so HL is configured properly, as well as my Telon.user file, with my custom version of the Vanguard races.

Back to my regularly scheduled RW work. With I6 Ravenloft 90+% done, I am mired in the reworking of T1-4 Temple of Elemental Evil to match my now governing style I have developed over time entering so much work.
**Side note Should have started with a smaller module like U1 Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh. It was really easy to go back and update/tweak, ToEE is a fracken mammoth, and requires a fair amount of work.

[jkthomsen9]

Very happy to hear this news. Looking forward to an early Christmas.

[AEIOU]

There will be a number of additional updates forthcoming in the weeks ahead. These updates will outline the new editions and delve into further detail regarding the new features and enhancements you can expect.
Are these updates really updates? Or maybe announcements of updates? Maybe just announcements? Or a spattering of announcements with accompanying updates? Are editions updates? Or frameworks upon which updates happen? I think I understand what features and enhancements are but I am not even going to guess want to think about what we expect as that's a whole different box of pandoras.

Stay tuned. These mysteries and much, much more will soon be revealed.

:p:p:p

[Acenoid]

+10 for those updates. ;P

[kbs666]

Is it safe to assume that present owners of RW will get the highest level of the edition system? We won't need to upgrade our copies to get full functionality?

[Acenoid]

(Assumptions)
I guess RW functionality is same for all. The difference seems to be the level of "server access"? That's what I thought at least :)

[rob]

Is it safe to assume that present owners of RW will get the highest level of the edition system? We won't need to upgrade our copies to get full functionality?

Yes! Our focus is on introducing lower-priced options for users who don't want all the bells and whistles - and accompanying complexity. All existing users will automatically get access to all the new features we're introducing.

[rob]

(Assumptions)
I guess RW functionality is same for all. The difference seems to be the level of "server access"? That's what I thought at least :)

There will be different levels of Server Access corresponding to the different editions of the product. More limited versions of Realm Works will place a lighter load on the server, so the cost will be appropriately reduced.

[Silveras]

There will be different levels of Server Access corresponding to the different editions of the product. More limited versions of Realm Works will place a lighter load on the server, so the cost will be appropriately reduced.

So, just to be clear from what I am seeing in the flow...


There will be different "editions" of RealmWorks.
Different editions will have different features (higher-tier editions adding more features to what is in lower-tier editions)
Different editions will require different levels of server access, according to the features in them.

[rob]

Correct. Right now, we have the GM Edition and Player Edition. The GM Edition will be getting a new name, and there will be new flavors added without all the features. Each will have its own, corresponding tier of Server Access.

We'll be detailing all this in future updates, so you'll need to wait a little bit for those updates and all the details.

[AEIOU]

I want to lobby for the lifetime subscription tier be renamed the Grand Poohbah edition. And it should be mocha flavored.

[nodice]

Congrats on nearing completion on another update cycle LWD team!

Nothing that I've been waiting for this time round, but still great to see how much thought you guys are giving it all!

Also, as I read your editions thing, I was thinking you were going to introduce at least one higher end purchase option (higher than any currently around) which you might have used as a way to gauge customer willingness to pay for some of the 'flashier' extra options that we've been waiting for.

I know it doesnt really work like this, and someone will kill me for saying it anyway, but I would easily pay an extra $100-200 for a deluxe edition if it meant I might get to use it sooner (and Im unemployed and poor, lol) :D

On that note, I wonder if anyone has ever thought of doing something like a 'feature backer' system where once some of the main suggestions which arent in the immediate pipeline have been identified and assessed, you could give people the option of chipping in to help fund the development of the specific features they want. (I know its probably fraught with management risks, it was just a thought!)

Anyway thankyou to LWD dev team and grats to all who are getting their 'Christmas' this update!

[jkthomsen9]

I want to lobby for the lifetime subscription tier be renamed the Grand Poohbah edition. And it should be mocha flavored.

actually laughed out loud. Well done sir! :D

[Exmortis]

On that note, I wonder if anyone has ever thought of doing something like a 'feature backer' system where once some of the main suggestions which arent in the immediate pipeline have been identified and assessed, you could give people the option of chipping in to help fund the development of the specific features they want. (I know its probably fraught with management risks, it was just a thought!)

Well this is a dangerous road to travel.

This is how a spreadsheet character sheet that dare not say its name works. And all it did was fuel a bidding war, between those who can afford features.

End of the day, we all bought RW, do we want to then have it fouled by a richer vs richer war for a feature one person wants? That said feature could stifle many features, even cost perspective buyers who do not fit into the 1% get what they want category.

At least now, features are given in terms I am fine with, profit vs community desire vs time to execute. Do we want to add, lots of free capital single person to the front of that?

I just bring it up, because unfortunately I am speaking from experience with said sheet, that dare not speak its name, and being in or close to that 1%. Not sure looking back it improved anything, and in the end I think it was a bad idea.

[Zaphod Beebledoc]

Are these updates really updates? Or maybe announcements of updates? Maybe just announcements? Or a spattering of announcements with accompanying updates? Are editions updates? Or frameworks upon which updates happen? I think I understand what features and enhancements are but I am not even going to guess want to think about what we expect as that's a whole different box of pandoras.

Stay tuned. These mysteries and much, much more will soon be revealed.

:p:p:p

I read that as the announcer from Batman!

[Maidhc O Casain]

i want to lobby for the lifetime subscription tier be renamed the grand poohbah edition. And it should be mocha flavored.

+1000! :d

[Pollution]

Deleted

[Nyarlathotep]

I might have missed it in page 1 or 2 but when the big update happens, will there be core rules content available for purchase (specifically Pathfinder)? I've been playing off and on with the mechanics section trying various approaches, but if we're this close to Content Market release and the core rules will potentially be available to purchase I'd rather not sink a lot of time into entering them myself.

[Dhrakken]

I might have missed it in page 1 or 2 but when the big update happens, will there be core rules content available for purchase (specifically Pathfinder)? I've been playing off and on with the mechanics section trying various approaches, but if we're this close to Content Market release and the core rules will potentially be available to purchase I'd rather not sink a lot of time into entering them myself.

+1 to this....

[rob]

Out of curiosity, will you be sending Beta Access to those contractors who have worked with 3PP's to get modules loaded into Realm Works?

I have done more than a few realms for AAW (as seen in my Sig) and I KNOW there's more I need to do to make sure everything is done and good to go for launch of the Market Place.

As we indicated in the announcement, we're now taking a drastically different approach than we had originally planned. This change in course was not even conceived until after GenCon, and we only nailed down the final details of various aspects last week. So everything that we'd originally intended (and discussed with anyone) has been invalidated.

We're still working out some remaining aspects of how things will work for 3PPs that want to publish their material for RW. We've got the overall process mapped out, but there are details left. The good news is that it will become significantly easier for 3PPs to publish material with the new approach, plus the originally expected delays will largely disappear. The main thing we're sorting out at this point is enabling 3PPs to have us publish their content so that all the extra security we'll be incorporating can be leveraged.

Bottom line: you'll need to be patient for a little bit longer while we nail down the rest of the details regarding 3PPs and content publishing with this entirely new model we're adopting. :)

[rob]

I might have missed it in page 1 or 2 but when the big update happens, will there be core rules content available for purchase (specifically Pathfinder)? I've been playing off and on with the mechanics section trying various approaches, but if we're this close to Content Market release and the core rules will potentially be available to purchase I'd rather not sink a lot of time into entering them myself.

Not immediately. The first wave of content will be assorted adventures. The second wave will also likely be adventures. We're unclear on how many users actually want the content within Realm Works at this point, so we're starting with content that users can readily drop into their existing campaigns. We're also thinking that books like the various Pathfinder Bestiaries will be of high interest, since those monsters can be dropped into any campaign, so those are high on the list. To be frank, the assumption is that anyone who wants the rules will probably want ALL the rules instead of just a few of the books, and we're not sure how many users will drop the coin for lots of books at once, so we're a little tentative about focusing on all the rules out of the gate.

I guess I should start a poll to get an informal idea of what people will most want to see. It won't impact the first wave or two, but it could definitely influence how we prioritize content beyond that. :)

[daplunk]

Do you have anyone preparing the 5e SRD? I imagine that would be a great start.

I'm sure between us, someone already has that content entered also which im sure you have the ability to leverage.

[rob]

I guess I should start a poll to get an informal idea of what people will most want to see. It won't impact the first wave or two, but it could definitely influence how we prioritize content beyond that. :)

The poll has now been created. You'll find it at the link below, if you wish to cast your vote!
http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=56795

[rob]

Do you have anyone preparing the 5e SRD? I imagine that would be a great start.

The 5E SRD is definitely on our radar. :)

[MNBlockHead]

The 5E SRD is definitely on our radar. :)

Yay! I've already entered in all the spells. It'll be interesting to see how my approach differs from the official format.

What I'm most excited about is having the monsters in RW.

[Jay_NOLA]

Any chance of doing Labyrinth Lord or OSRIC? OSR games are pretty popular with my group.

[ibecker]

I've heard that Steve Jackson Games isn't always the easiest to work with, but I'd definitely buy GURPS 4th edition if it were available on RW.

[Exmortis]

One bit of advice, make sure you pester those other publishers, not just LWD. Paizo and LWD obviously already have a solid working relationship to which build on to leverage RW. But, if you pester those other publishers, like Wizards, to get off their duffs and make the effort, you may just get a surprise!

I am lucky, I am invested in PF for the long haul, but I always hope everyone else gets what they want too, the more RW sales the better for us all!

[jkthomsen9]

removed

[daplunk]

Alot has changed since 2013 though. Specifically the market share which is sliding back towards D&D.

[jkthomsen9]

removed

[Exmortis]

That would be unfortunate. The Wizards/Hasbro business model has always been around rolling out a new rule set every couple years. Case in point.

1974 D&D
1977 AD&D
1989 2nd Edition
1995 2nd Edition (revised)
2000 3rd edition
2003 3.5
2008 4th
2010 Essentials
2014 5th edition

As a result I have 2 sea trunks full of obsolete material, as each rule set is incompatible with previous iterations.

By contrast Pathfinder has had one rule set since 2009 and is backward compatible with all 3.5 material......that is 13 years worth of usable material for pathfinder and 2 years of material for 5E. Also you can expect 6E within another 3 years.

As a result of all this I left D&D in 2008 and never looked back.

To be fair to Wizards and Hasbro (Not that I like Hasbro what so ever), it started with TSR, they just kept the same "makem pay" mentality.

[Exmortis]

I would not count on Hasbro being reasonable. In fact Hasbro being unreasonable is the genesis on Pathfinders creation and success. Which is why Pathfinder has a 3 year growth of 153% with reported sails of 11.2 Million in 2013. While Hasbro will not break out Wizards portion of there sales, but we do know that Wizards makes up 10% of there gaming division and and they reported losses during the same period.

Well best you can hope for is that Hasbro looks over at Lisa, and sees her success. Paizo is a model for gaming publishers, it even sells "competing" products. She is not stupid, gamers play what they love, so why not sell it all and make some money. Solid business women she is.

Maybe, and I stress maybe because it is Hasbro after all, the people buying 5e may have a little voice. If the powers that be keep seeing money being spent on PF and other systems, and how the support of products like HL and RW are helping to fuel that game economy, they may see the "light" and change....Hopefully

The 5e SRD is already the crack in their stupidity, blaming OGL and PF for their downfall with 4e was laughable. But seems 5e is finding a place back on gamer tables. So those gamers want more change? More open materials? HL, RW, or others? Make sure you band together and make your voices and desires heard. Make sure you state how much you love 5e and want to use all these supporting products like PF players, or how much you love 5e but can't play with out such support and are going back to another game system.

If they don't listen? Ask them is they work for Paizo? As that's what product your going to buy now. :)

[MNBlockHead]

I would not count on Hasbro being reasonable. In fact Hasbro being unreasonable is the genesis on Pathfinders creation and success. Which is why Pathfinder has a 3 year growth of 153% with reported sails of 11.2 Million in 2013. While Hasbro will not break out Wizards portion of there sales, but we do know that Wizards makes up 10% of there gaming division and and they reported losses during the same period.

5e Material is already being sold for multiple competing VTT products (Fantasy Grounds, Roll20, AltSpaceVR, ...) So, why wouldn't they sell through HeroLab and RealmWorks?

[Farling]

5e Material is already being sold for multiple competing VTT products (Fantasy Grounds, Roll20, AltSpaceVR, ...) So, why wouldn't they sell through HeroLab and RealmWorks?

A quick check shows that roll20 is only providing the 5e SRD (https://roll20.net/compendium), which is the same level of support in HL.

[daplunk]

Actually they have a liscense agreement with roll20 and fantasy grounds.

http://blog.roll20.net/post/148117298890/roll20-is-now-an-officially-licensed-partner-with

[jkthomsen9]

removed

[rob]

ALERT! The bashing stops NOW! Any further bashing of individuals or companies will result in the banhammer and/or thread closure. I don't want to do either of those things. Yes, I'm looking at you, @jkthomsen9, but everyone is hereby on notice.

And, for the record, I can categorically state that some of the bashing arguments being made are ill-informed, at best.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled, constructive discussions. Thank you.

[Dark Lord Galen]

Disregard ... I don't wish to confuse any with the facts.....

[rob]

Disregard ... I don't wish to confuse any with the facts.....

I actually saw your original post. I didn't see any "facts" there that contributed in any constructive way to the conversation. Thank you for the retraction. However, your assertion above about the "facts" is specious, at best. Please share your "facts" (aka: opinions) on the subject elsewhere. Thanks! :)

[Dark Lord Galen]

However, your assertion above about the "facts" is specious, at best. Please share your "facts" (aka: opinions) on the subject elsewhere. Thanks! :)
Well, if you had a private PM Rob, I would happily share those facts with you. Since I have corresponded with many of those involved throughout the years concerning that particular topic. ie Casey Brown, Gygax, Holan, Mohan, Mona just to list a few. Before you condemn facts you have determined "opinion" (without determining validity) be sure yours isn't the opinion in question.

I get controlling a thread to keep it on topic and agree in monitoring them to keep the flow positive.
So again, as you say, happy to share the facts with you elsewhere.

Best Regards,
DLG

[rob]

Well, if you had a private PM Rob, I would happily share those facts with you. Since I have corresponded with many of those involved throughout the years concerning that particular topic. ie Casey Brown, Gygax, Holan, Mohan, Mona just to list a few. Before you condemn facts you have determined "opinion" (without determining validity) be sure yours isn't the opinion in question.

I get controlling a thread to keep it on topic and agree in monitoring them to keep the flow positive.
So again, as you say, happy to share the facts with you elsewhere.

The contents of your original post simply assigned blame to a variety of individuals and used a few choice phrases that a court of law would deem as opinion. I have no reason to doubt that you know lots of inside details. I have spoken with many of the same people you cite, plus many others, and there are lots of sordid details that I've been told and that have found their way into other places across the internet. Those details don't belong here on these forums. More importantly, your original post didn't include any of those details as support for your assertions - only the assertions themselves.

I wholly understand the frustrations of long-time D&D players. Heck, I started playing D&D in 1976! And I've had my own experiences dealing directly with Wizards on multiple occasions for business over the past 15+ years. That does NOT mean this is the place to discuss frustrations with Wizards, even if some of them are completely valid. There are other places across the internet that welcome such threads, should you choose to do so.

*THAT* is the point I am making here. So let's PLEASE get this discussion back to its proper purpose. Thanks! :)

[wurzel]

So let's PLEASE get this discussion back to its proper purpose. Thanks! :)

Whatever purpose that may be, if not just pouring out the accumulated frustration...
Does somebody really think that the responsible management of those companies in question is reading this forum?
Take a deep breath, go out into the fresh air, hug a tree and kill some zombies (if you don't find any, hit stones instead). Then come back in and continue with that purpose :)

[ShadowChemosh]

Got a small question about the Paizo content. Sense you have a good working relationship with Paizo and will have Pathfinder adventures. Can we safely assume that Starfinder adventures will be coming to RW "soon" (soon of course meaning sometime in the future)?

My group will be switching to try out Starfinder when it comes out. Would be really nice if I could purchase the first Starfinder AP all done in RW. The time saving would be sweet! :D

[kbs666]

On a similar subject, has a decision on if or how PFS scenarios will be handled?

I'm an active PFS player and GM besides running my own campaign and if the new scenarios became available in RW that would make my life so much easier.

[jkthomsen9]

I apologize for my earlier comments. My intent was not to bash but to show the contrast between the two company's. Rereading my posts I see your point Rob. I removed them. I will endeavor to keep any future post vanilla.

[rob]

Got a small question about the Paizo content. Sense you have a good working relationship with Paizo and will have Pathfinder adventures. Can we safely assume that Starfinder adventures will be coming to RW "soon" (soon of course meaning sometime in the future)?

Nothing is yet in writing, but I can pretty safely say "yes". Starfinder was announced long after our existing license was put in place, so it still needs to be added to our license. However, Paizo has sought assurances from us that we'll be supporting it, and we have a verbal agreement on it, so it should theoretically be just a matter of putting ink on paper at this point. :)

[rob]

On a similar subject, has a decision on if or how PFS scenarios will be handled?

I'm an active PFS player and GM besides running my own campaign and if the new scenarios became available in RW that would make my life so much easier.

PFS scenarios are on our radar, but there are some other things currently looming higher on our priority list. We're actively weighing the amount of time/effort involved in entering PFS scenarios vs. the number of copies we can reasonably expect to sell through the Content Market. Since they are primarily targeted at GMs running PFS, that's a smaller subset of the overall GMs running Pathfinder. There's also the consideration that we probably need to commit to doing all scenarios for a season, so we likely can't realistically "test the waters" by doing just a few of them on a trial basis.

At this point, the Magic 8-Ball is saying "Reply hazy. Ask again later." :)

[rob]

I apologize for my earlier comments. My intent was not to bash but to show the contrast between the two company's. Rereading my posts I see your point Rob. I removed them. I will endeavor to keep any future post vanilla.

There's no need to stay "vanilla". This is a hobby where we're all passionately invested, so it's normal to feel strongly about things. We all just need to be mindful of that and take the edge off some of those sentiments here on the forums. I'd bet that, if you had stopped to take a breath and re-read your post before pressing "Submit", you probably would have reasonably edited it a bit to remove that edge, at which point the post would have been fine. That's what I'm asking for here. :)

Thanks!

[MaxSupernova]

Mocha sucks. I want French Vanilla.

(Just trying to drum up some new more product appropriate drama...)

[kbs666]

PFS scenarios are on our radar, but there are some other things currently looming higher on our priority list. We're actively weighing the amount of time/effort involved in entering PFS scenarios vs. the number of copies we can reasonably expect to sell through the Content Market. Since they are primarily targeted at GMs running PFS, that's a smaller subset of the overall GMs running Pathfinder. There's also the consideration that we probably need to commit to doing all scenarios for a season, so we likely can't realistically "test the waters" by doing just a few of them on a trial basis.

At this point, the Magic 8-Ball is saying "Reply hazy. Ask again later." :)
While past seasons would be useful new scenarios are what I, and I'd guess most PFS GM's, would be most interested in.

I also think PFS scenarios show off part of what makes RW so powerful. Reducing session prep. PFS GM's do not usually have the sort of time to devote, or the foreknowledge of what they will be running, to spend more than a week prepping for a scenario. PFS actually has a website where GM's share resources to improve prep, pfsprep.com. There is definitely value in being able to buy the scenario where more of the prep has been done. RW can do that easily enough and with the ability to add each scenario into a Golarion realm with the setting info also present to give the players more immersion I think you might find that PFS would sell a lot of product, I bet it drives a lot of HL sales right now for similar reasons.

[rlbeaver]

Okay, I searched around and see it mentioned, but can't find the official information...I know there was the player's view via the web, and I've heard there might be/will be a GM version for the web...is the intent of that to replace the desktop version eventually or to supplement?

Sorry if it's been asked and answered...if so, just pm me and I'll delete this post.

[Joe]

Okay, I searched around and see it mentioned, but can't find the official information...I know there was the player's view via the web, and I've heard there might be/will be a GM version for the web...is the intent of that to replace the desktop version eventually or to supplement?

Sorry if it's been asked and answered...if so, just pm me and I'll delete this post.

We did show a very early preview of the planned web offering as a "work in progress." However, it is not currently available. At the moment, the Realm Works team is focusing hard on delivering the Content Market.

[Vargr]

Okay, I searched around and see it mentioned, but can't find the official information...I know there was the player's view via the web, and I've heard there might be/will be a GM version for the web...is the intent of that to replace the desktop version eventually or to supplement?

Just to help keeping this thread going all over the place...

I do not hope that the present desktop version of RW will be stopped in favour of a web based version.

Being dependent on the interwebz is not such a great thing as it is cracked up to be - au contraire.

[DaFranker]

Just to help keeping this thread going all over the place...

I do not hope that the present desktop version of RW will be stopped in favour of a web based version.

Being dependent on the interwebz is not such a great thing as it is cracked up to be - au contraire.

I see it more as a "Well, some users have their data cloud-based, so why not offer them cloud-style access too if we can?" thing.

LW's always seemed very conscious of offline GMs (and players) who just dump their stuff on a laptop to bring to the gaming table, and don't want to deal with network stuff or can't get Internet access during the session.

It would take a pretty big series of (what I would consider) bad decisions for them to veer that far off track from their previous values.

[Vargr]

I am all for having both options.

I just wanted to voice my misgivings of have only one option and that one being the cloud :-)

I, too, would be surprised if they dropped the option for using RW without a connection to the cloud.

[Silveras]

Past discussion (long past.. no updates in some time) put the web version is a trailing the desktop version for features. New features would appear first in the desktop version, and would migrate to the web sometime later. That was said in the context of the players' web view, and the GM's version has had no details mentioned at all.. even the mention of a GM's web version was in passing.

My expectation is that, as the Content Market pieces begin to appear, the next survey will also take shape, with questions that might help to LoneWolf to solidify their plans for the web-based access models.

[kbs666]

Cloud access has always been optional AIUI so I think they are committed to a desktop model as the primary version.

As someone who has developed applications for the web of this sort of complexity there are real good reasons to prefer the desktop, thick client, environment to the browser, thin client, one. I doubt they will abandon the desktop any time soon.

[rob]

Okay, I searched around and see it mentioned, but can't find the official information...I know there was the player's view via the web, and I've heard there might be/will be a GM version for the web...is the intent of that to replace the desktop version eventually or to supplement?

Sorry if it's been asked and answered...if so, just pm me and I'll delete this post.

The web version is intended to augment the desktop version, at least for quite a while, providing support for all the other platforms that users want to leverage. We first need to get the web version launched for players. Then we'll be putting out a version for GMs that is targeted at running game sessions, allowing GMs to use whatever device they want for that purpose. Then we'll need to get all the world building stuff into the web version, which is a LOT of functionality.

So it's going to take quite some time to ultimately get the web version to the same level as the desktop. By that point, internet access may be so ubiquitous that it makes sense to phase out the desktop version, or the desktop may still be necessary. I have no idea, and anyone who asserts otherwise is making rash assumptions about the future. So we'll just have to figure that out down the road. :)

EDIT: The bottom line is that the desktop version is going to be around for quite some time still. :)

[EightBitz]

The web version is intended to augment the desktop version, at least for quite a while, providing support for all the other platforms that users want to leverage. We first need to get the web version launched for players. Then we'll be putting out a version for GMs that is targeted at running game sessions, allowing GMs to use whatever device they want for that purpose. Then we'll need to get all the world building stuff into the web version, which is a LOT of functionality.

So it's going to take quite some time to ultimately get the web version to the same level as the desktop. By that point, internet access may be so ubiquitous that it makes sense to phase out the desktop version, or the desktop may still be necessary. I have no idea, and anyone who asserts otherwise is making rash assumptions about the future. So we'll just have to figure that out down the road. :)

EDIT: The bottom line is that the desktop version is going to be around for quite some time still. :)

You can have my desktop version when you pry it out of my cold, dead tentacles.

[Jujutsuka]

Personally, I would greatly prefer to have access to a fully functional web browser application. I love the idea of logging in on the website to work on any facet of my homebrew campaign setting. I don't have a personal laptop to install on, and don't want to be tied to my home desktop for working on campaign/adventure prep. Especially when I could just log in on my work laptop any time I have some downtime between my work appointments. When you eventually do get around to it, you'll have one more happy user!!!

[Vargr]

I concur - A web-only RW is of little to no interest.

Actually it worries me deeply this talk of phasing out the desktop version.

I know; that is not what Rob is saying - far from it. Yet all the same...

I spend a lot of time at places with bad to no internet. Nothing better than to start up your RW Desk Client (TM), lean back and be creative.

[ShadowChemosh]

My thoughts is I "love" the idea of a web based player version of RW. This will be of great use both at a game session and away as my players are not all locked into Windows and laptops. In addition during the work week some of my players have no access to computers (ie Window based Laptops) but do have access to tablet/phones. Several have voiced the desire to read up on the last games information but can't do it on the phone/tablet devices. RW Web Based player edition will be most welcome.

As a DM I admit I am not too excited about a web version for the DM. The desktop software already runs slow and I can't imagine it running faster on a web server. Like others would hate to suddenly have "internet" connection issues during a game. I am glad to hear that the desktop version is not going anywhere anytime soon. :)

[wurzel]

You can have my desktop version when you pry it out of my cold, dead tentacles.

Well said. +1

[Ladyofdragons]

My thoughts is I "love" the idea of a web based player version of RW. This will be of great use both at a game session and away as my players are not all locked into Windows and laptops. In addition during the work week some of my players have no access to computers (ie Window based Laptops) but do have access to tablet/phones. Several have voiced the desire to read up on the last games information but can't do it on the phone/tablet devices. RW Web Based player edition will be most welcome.

I had exactly this discussion with players last night, hoping to get a way for them to see the content wherever/whenever. Player web view would be awesome, DM web tools isn't something I'm interested in.

[Chemlak]

EightBitz and Shadow speak for me.

On this, at least.

[Acenoid]

Agreed, I have not really a need for a web based version for DMs...

[Gord]

While I can see a use for a web based DM version for those moments when I have an idea or time to kill away from my desktop unit, I have to agree that it is not a priority for me. Having the player's able to see revealed information on tablets and phones is much more useful.

[daplunk]

This needs to follow the new concept of.. Give the people working read only player Web access asap and develop it over time. I would kill for the version shown in the video over a year ago just so I can start to get my players into my world without the need for a standalone application.

[rob]

This needs to follow the new concept of.. Give the people working read only player Web access asap and develop it over time. I would kill for the version shown in the video over a year ago just so I can start to get my players into my world without the need for a standalone application.

This was never a "new concept". The plan was always to start with the web version for players, then make it a tool for in-game use for GMs, and then evolve the entire product to the web. Each of those stages opens up RW to a much wider audience in a systematic manner.

And we NEED a web-based version for GMs to support folks who either (a) aren't Windows users or (b) don't want the bulk of a laptop at the table during play. Yes, there are gamers out there like that! :)

[Exmortis]

This was never a "new concept". The plan was always to start with the web version for players, then make it a tool for in-game use for GMs, and then evolve the entire product to the web. Each of those stages opens up RW to a much wider audience in a systematic manner.

And we NEED a web-based version for GMs to support folks who either (a) aren't Windows users or (b) don't want the bulk of a laptop at the table during play. Yes, there are gamers out there like that! :)

Is it really worth the work for the GM web tool for those 23 possible buyers? :D

I jest of course.

Player web view would be a boon, especially if it could connect live/real time to the GM tool.

But I want to voice my support of the windows GM tool, for the rest of the millions who do use Windows, this is the shiznat! I personally am little despondent at the regression of apps to web. Oh sure bejeweled is cool, but it is no Skyrim. Likewise, I would not want to see RW GM client be the next bejeweled web app.

[AEIOU]

Tablet support would be fantastic. And that's what the GM version on the web would provide. It's also a good option for older laptops as the processing and loading would be limited by the internet rather than the CPU/memory.

[Silveras]

Tablet support would be fantastic. And that's what the GM version on the web would provide. It's also a good option for older laptops as the processing and loading would be limited by the internet rather than the CPU/memory.

I don't think anyone is saying not to do any kind of web version for GMs... waht I do think people are saying is that they don't want the GM's option to eventually be web-only.. which is what it sounds like is the plan.

[rob]

I don't think anyone is saying not to do any kind of web version for GMs... waht I do think people are saying is that they don't want the GM's option to eventually be web-only.. which is what it sounds like is the plan.

<sigh>

That is NOT what I said, nor is it even possible to infer that conclusion from what I said. I was VERY clear on exactly what I was saying. Here it is again, verbatim from my post up-thread, since apparently it wasn't clear enough the first time...

So it's going to take quite some time to ultimately get the web version to the same level as the desktop. By that point, internet access may be so ubiquitous that it makes sense to phase out the desktop version, or the desktop may still be necessary. I have no idea, and anyone who asserts otherwise is making rash assumptions about the future. So we'll just have to figure that out down the road.

To translate, what I said is I DON'T KNOW what the future will be, and NOBODY ELSE does either.

[Vargr]

@Rob:

Thank you for the clarification for the more dimwitted of us :-)

I will sleep a little easier tonight.

[Exmortis]

<sigh>

That is NOT what I said, nor is it even possible to infer that conclusion from what I said. I was VERY clear on exactly what I was saying. Here it is again, verbatim from my post up-thread, since apparently it wasn't clear enough the first time...

So it's going to take quite some time to ultimately get the web version to the same level as the desktop. By that point, internet access may be so ubiquitous that it makes sense to phase out the desktop version, or the desktop may still be necessary. I have no idea, and anyone who asserts otherwise is making rash assumptions about the future. So we'll just have to figure that out down the road.

To translate, what I said is I DON'T KNOW what the future will be, and NOBODY ELSE does either.

I don't think many missed your point, think of it as more of a show of support for what we love about your product currently.

Yes no one can predict the future, but how many people have said "bah we will never leave the union, I don't need to voice my support......."

???

That's what my post was, and what it was intended to achieve. Show my support for what I like, to help the future.

[Silveras]

I don't think many missed your point, think of it as more of a show of support for what we love about your product currently.

Yes no one can predict the future, but how many people have said "bah we will never leave the union, I don't need to voice my support......."

???

That's what my post was, and what it was intended to achieve. Show my support for what I like, to help the future.

The other point to that, too, is that when someone who is a principal of the company, and who has a great deal of say in the direction of the particular product, speculates aloud... that speculation is often seen as an insight into the thinking at the company. And, in that, it is indeed better to speak up now rather than later.

[rob]

The other point to that, too, is that when someone who is a principal of the company, and who has a great deal of say in the direction of the particular product, speculates aloud... that speculation is often seen as an insight into the thinking at the company. And, in that, it is indeed better to speak up now rather than later.

That makes perfect sense. But that's not the problem here. Not in the slightest, since I never said anything about planning to abandon the desktop. I specifically said I had no idea what the future held in this regard. If you read my post (#92) and your comment that I responded to, you quite clearly drew conclusions that I very specifically countered in my original post on the matter. To wit, the closing phrase "which is what it sounds like is the plan".

My goal is to be open. However, even when I'm painfully explicit, my words gets twisted around and result in either alarm and/or propagation of misinformation. This is a somewhat common occurrence and not limited to this specific thread. It feels like the old adage "No good deed goes unpuninshed". And it gives me pause before sharing anything again in the future, since all it does is create more work dealing with the "fallout" from those who can't just accept my words as the honest truth. Keep that in mind as I become less forthcoming about things in the future. :(

[kbs666]

There are people who make it there life's work to over react to things posted on the web.

When you get a social media person up to speed you can leave it to them to deal with that sort of stuff and not worry about it. I don't think anyone else misunderstood your posts.

[AEIOU]

Rob speaks straight. I know, I know, it's sometimes fun to "read into" what he says and try to tease out more information than he's willing to divulge. But in the end, he says exactly what he means and he strives to fulfill what he says. He doesn't spout hyperbole and he doesn't stroke egos. I have great respect for him and LWD.

Rob -- Please don't stop keeping us informed. We value your insights, your vision and your guidance as we all try to wrap our heads around the future of gaming. I know it's hard to handcraft every response to say exactly what you mean. RW is hard too.... We need you as part of this community, not just as a programmer. We need you.

[jkthomsen9]

Rob speaks straight. I know, I know, it's sometimes fun to "read into" what he says and try to tease out more information than he's willing to divulge. But in the end, he says exactly what he means and he strives to fulfill what he says. He doesn't spout hyperbole and he doesn't stroke egos. I have great respect for him and LWD.

Rob -- Please don't stop keeping us informed. We value your insights, your vision and your guidance as we all try to wrap our heads around the future of gaming. I know it's hard to handcraft every response to say exactly what you mean. RW is hard too.... We need you as part of this community, not just as a programmer. We need you.

Ditto

[Zaphod Beebledoc]

Rob -- Please don't stop keeping us informed. We value your insights, your vision and your guidance as we all try to wrap our heads around the future of gaming. I know it's hard to handcraft every response to say exactly what you mean. RW is hard too.... We need you as part of this community, not just as a programmer. We need you.

Plus one!

[Cornelius]

Rob speaks straight. I know, I know, it's sometimes fun to "read into" what he says and try to tease out more information than he's willing to divulge. But in the end, he says exactly what he means and he strives to fulfill what he says. He doesn't spout hyperbole and he doesn't stroke egos. I have great respect for him and LWD.

Rob -- Please don't stop keeping us informed. We value your insights, your vision and your guidance as we all try to wrap our heads around the future of gaming. I know it's hard to handcraft every response to say exactly what you mean. RW is hard too.... We need you as part of this community, not just as a programmer. We need you.

I second that as well. As for all the wild guesses that are circling around the forum: I ignore most of it as over simplification, extreme views, uninformed opinions.
All I read in your post was: LWD will try to make the web version as good as the desktop version. :)

[Talley Darkstar]

So my question is when will the Account Upgrade be available? I know I can create a new account and purchase the GM Edition, but I'm not wanting to create a new account. That holds more value to me at this point than the Content Market. Please say when the Content Market is released, this will be available.

[rob]

So my question is when will the Account Upgrade be available? I know I can create a new account and purchase the GM Edition, but I'm not wanting to create a new account. That holds more value to me at this point than the Content Market. Please say when the Content Market is released, this will be available.

This should be available in conjunction with the Content Market release next month.

[Vargr]

Sweet - have a player with player edition that says he is just waiting to upgrade.

[Talley Darkstar]

This should be available in conjunction with the Content Market release next month. Nice! Glad to hear it, been waiting since I bought the Player's Edition.

[AutoDMC]

Howdy.

I'm quite happy to see export functionality coming, as that has historically been the biggest sticking point for me using RealmWorks. My question is, what format exports are available? Will it be able to dump out PDFs or plain text? Structured data like XML or an open SQL format like Sqlite? Or is it a binary blob for import into another RealmWorks package?

[Farling]

ignore me.

[DaFranker]

Howdy.

I'm quite happy to see export functionality coming, as that has historically been the biggest sticking point for me using RealmWorks. My question is, what format exports are available? Will it be able to dump out PDFs or plain text? Structured data like XML or an open SQL format like Sqlite? Or is it a binary blob for import into another RealmWorks package?

Hey! Rob has previously confirmed an XML format and an XSD for us with all the specifications of how the data is organized in XML (so we can dive in and edit it using external tools).

No other specific format has been confirmed yet IIRC. However, enterprising community coders will most likely write some scripts that will convert this into other formats, like splitting it up into straight webpages, wiki pages, pretty PDF displays, etc. There's already been some talk about it and we've seen at least two people in the forums who started practicing their XML-to-HTML in advance already ;)

[rob]

I'm quite happy to see export functionality coming, as that has historically been the biggest sticking point for me using RealmWorks. My question is, what format exports are available? Will it be able to dump out PDFs or plain text? Structured data like XML or an open SQL format like Sqlite? Or is it a binary blob for import into another RealmWorks package?

I believe all of the answers you're seeking will be found in the news update we posted last week (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=56988). That update outlines the different export formats that we'll be initially supporting. If you still have questions after reading through that news update, please don't hesitate to ask them. I just don't want to be repeating lots of stuff that's already been posted in another thread. :)

[AutoDMC]

It's like Christmas in December!

XML export was THE feature holding me back from using RealmWorks, and honestly I'd stopped using it a year and a half ago because of that lack. In point of fact, my forum history here is not amongst my proudest achievements due specifically for the Export feature. (Personal problems, took it out on the Lone Wolf Team, they were the "bigger man").

I'd do a search every few months to see if Export had made it in and, finding nothing, move on to whatever other projects I was working on. It was only yesterday, finding this thread through my every-few-monthly-Google-searches that I saw the magical word. Boy was I excited! Thank you for bringing this necessary feature to me. I can't wait to go home and start flailing away at the software, porting my handwritten notes into the software.

Thanks to rob, DaFranker, and Farling for laying out the XML export and pointing me to the details post that for some reason Google failed to point me at instead pointing me at this update post.