Is there a way to duplicate a realm?

[TenchuHawke]

I am building a realm that is filled with info and I want to make a duplicate of it so that once I am done with the core world subsequent changes don't change the core.

That way I can run multiple groups in the same game system using different versions of reality (Sheriff Jones may be dead in Earth 541, but not Earth 524).

[Vargr]

That is at present not a feature that is available.

This is my understanding of things:

The Content Market is on its way (priority one for LWD at the moment).
When the Content Market is fully rolled out it should be possible to:
- Make a master realm.
- Make a number of child realms that are exact copies of the master realm.
- When changing something in a child realm only that one realm is affected.
- When changing something in the master realm the change carries through to all child realms.

That is my understanding - I might be wrong.

So, you can not copy a realm yet, but eventually you will be able to.

[Inglorin]

So, you are saying, that in order to ever be able to copy my own content from one of my realms to another I need to pay for Cloud Service?

[Dhrakken]

So, you are saying, that in order to ever be able to copy my own content from one of my realms to another I need to pay for Cloud Service?

I don't see anywhere where that was mentioned or implied.... Since you don't currently absolutely need the cloud to use Realm works, I don't see why would you need it to copy from one realm to another. What is implied is that this is functionality that will likely be released at the same time as the content market. To me, this is simple functionality that should work perfectly fine in a local environment. Of course, I could be wrong... we'll just have to wait and see!

Inglorin, all 3 of your posts have been made to take shots at Realm Works... you know, there are a lot of great things in Realm Works right now; you should check it out and maybe try to be a bit more open minded.

[AEIOU]

@Vargr's understanding of sharing material requiring a cloud subscription whether with others or yourself jives with what we've gathered over the years and has not been stated to be misunderstood. More information is likely coming soon but I would not be surprised to see this as a paid feature due to the need to use the cloud for transfer. Indeed, I would be shocked if a subscription wasn't required.

[Silveras]

To expand on Vargr's post...

It is my understanding that the Content Market will be rolled-out in phases.
It is not clear what phase will include copying your own Realm.
It is not known how many phases there will be.

The functionality for copying your own Realm is the same functionality needed for distribution of purchased content from the Content Market (so that's why they are linked).

Creating a Realm requires that it be done on the remote Server as part of the operation.. this would remain true even if the Realm is a copy of another one. So the copying operation will require access to the Server (note: this is NOT saying Cloud Service is required).

[Dhrakken]

@Vargr's understanding of sharing material requiring a cloud subscription whether with others or yourself jives with what we've gathered over the years and has not been stated to be misunderstood. More information is likely coming soon but I would not be surprised to see this as a paid feature due to the need to use the cloud for transfer. Indeed, I would be shocked if a subscription wasn't required.

Not saying that your assumption is wrong or anything but this doesn't make sense to me. As you can currently have your realm completely stored locally without using the cloud, it should be as simple as copying data from one folder and pasting it into another; locally where, you know, your data is stored...

Edit: Yes, I know I am new to this tool and this forum so please excuse my ignorance!

[Parody]

The Cloud Service FAQ (http://www.wolflair.com/realmworks/support/cloud-service-faq/) answers part of this (assuming nothing changes):


Will I be able to duplicate or copy one of my realms without cloud service?

Yes, all Realm Works GM accounts will be able to duplicate realms, regardless of cloud service status. However, duplication without cloud service will take a snapshot of the current realm and create a completely separate copy of it, without any ongoing connection between the two. This works exactly the same as if you copied a document on your local computer.

With cloud service, a realm can be created that retains a connection to its original source. Subsequent changes to the original source can be inherited into the clone over time. This can be extremely important if you intend to evolve your content, since a simple copy without cloud service would require maintaining both copies independently once the copy was made – just like a copied word-processing document.

Currently the only workaround is to keep separate databases using the backup and restore functions to activate one at a time. This is a bad idea if you also have Cloud Service, since the databases share server IDs and it would be easy to wipe out one set of data with the other online. Even if you're already managing your own backups, it's not great because Realm Works doesn't help you keep them separate and won't help you merge them after it is able to duplicate realms.

[Vargr]

So, you are saying, that in order to ever be able to copy my own content from one of my realms to another I need to pay for Cloud Service?

No.

I have no idea exactly how the cloud service will work subscription wise and for what exactly it will be required.

However, I believe that in order to make the information/update between the realms work it has to go through the servers at LWD, where it will be decided what parts will have to be copied, what parts deleted and what parts changed. It is my impression that this takes place on the servers (or in a cooperation between the servers and the clients).

I am probably halfway right, halfway wrong on this.

Whether this will require a subscription or not I guess we will have to wait and see.

[Inglorin]

Inglorin, all 3 of your posts have been made to take shots at Realm Works... you know, there are a lot of great things in Realm Works right now; you should check it out and maybe try to be a bit more open minded.

I know, I know. I *am* using RW in my weekly game extensively. I am quite happy with this single instance, running for a single group, in a single world. I am working around most of the pitfalls. The thing is, I am starting to worry reading statements about the cloud service being needed for the copying of parts of my realm into other game worlds and into my next campaign.

About taking the shots or being positive: There is not much I can do about this at the moment, can I? They are making it extremely hard for anyone to take the "communications" seriously. I'd rather be cynical than an apologist (sp?). I am not being paid enough for that.

[Viking2054]

We do not know if you will have to pay for cloud service or not, although I'm speculating you will.

The one thing that is for sure, is that you will have to talk to the cloud servers long enough to generate a new GUID (globally unique IDentifier). That number for sure will be generated by the LWD servers. However, once generated, the Realm Works client may or may not be able to do the copy independently of the cloud... we just don't know how it will work.

@Vargar I believe you left out one option in the copy process. You can make a copy of your realm that becomes independent of the master realm. Think of it as a second master realm where once copied, the two become completely separate entities and what you change in one will never affect the other.

For the record, you already have to talk to the LWD servers to generate a GUID for every new realm you create. GUID's are not handled locally because every single realm created for realm works use by everyone that uses realm works needs a completely unique GUID. But it is a short conversation with the LWD servers taking only seconds once all the initial data for creating the realm is entered in.

[Silveras]

I would not use the term "master realm" to refer to independent realms... because MASTER.realm the name of the local database file that contains ALL Realms. It might mislead new users into thinking they can copy that file somewhere else to make a new Realm that is somehow not linked to the existing one... that doesn't work.

I am also leery of the strategy of using the same Realm to hold different contents on different machines, using sleight-of-hand with backup files. That's a strategy that works if you're careful, and have no intention of EVER syncing your realms. Like all "expolts", it is a somewhat risky thing... all that is required is one mistake to lose some work, something that does not happen if you do use the Cloud Service. To explain for new users.. as noted, each Realm has a GUID that identifies it uniquely. That GUID is what RealmWorks uses to identify your Realm (not whatever name you have given it). You can make all the changes you like to your Realm off-line, and never connect back to Server again if you like. But that's working in isolation. If you alone plan to use RealmWorks, and not have your players connect, that will work. But if you want your players to be able to read the revealed data between sessions, you must use the Cloud Service to sync your Realm to the Server... where the players using Player Edition (and, presumably, in future using Web Access) will be able to sync a copy down to their machines (or, for Web Access, view it in a browser).

If you have played around using multiple backup files to alter one Realm into another on a second machine, syncing neither, then you have committed yourself to losing your data in one of them if you later decide to use the Cloud Service nd sync.. because as far the RealmWorks knows, they are the same Realm, and one of them is going to be seen as corrupted version of whichever one you sync'd first.

I know Parody mentioned this in his post describing the "option", but I don't think he stressed enough for new users that this is a "use at your own risk/ totally not supported" approach.

[Vargr]

@Vargar I believe you left out one option in the copy process. You can make a copy of your realm that becomes independent of the master realm. Think of it as a second master realm where once copied, the two become completely separate entities and what you change in one will never affect the other.

You are right. I forgot that in my excitement over being able to (if I am correct) have master and child realms.

A simple copy with no connections is an important feature too.

[Vargr]

I would not use the term "master realm" to refer to independent realms... because MASTER.realm the name of the local database file that contains ALL Realms. It might mislead new users into thinking they can copy that file somewhere else to make a new Realm that is somehow not linked to the existing one... that doesn't work.

Never thought of it that way - so probably "master realm" is the wrong term to use. Well, we will have to wait and see what the official term becomes.

[Viking2054]

If I remember correctly, master realm and child realm were the terms Rob used when they announced the plans on how copying a realm would work. If I'm correct, I'll defer to Rob's terms.

[Silveras]

If I remember correctly, master realm and child realm were the terms Rob used when they announced the plans on how copying a realm would work. If I'm correct, I'll defer to Rob's terms.

You may well be correct.. I don't recall now.

However, since other file-based suggestions were in the thread, I thought t best to at least point out that the term is NOT referring to the file. :)

[Viking2054]

Well, hopefully no one new to this thread will misconstrue the two since it's now been mentioned.