GURPS Lite

[Kairos]

GURPS Lite
Data files for Hero Lab 5.0
(Authoring Kit required to save and print generated content)

What is this?
These data files allow you to use Hero Lab to generate GURPS Lite (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/lite/) characters. I often use this stripped-down version of GURPS Fourth Edition (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/) for one shots and the like.

Why do data files for GURPS Lite and not normal GURPS?
Two reasons: time and energy. GURPS Lite kept this project well-scoped (since I'm doing this in my spare time). To tackle the full version of GURPS is beyond my resources right now. But, my hope is that someone (or a group) might use these data files as a base to build upon.

A base to build upon? This means you produced clean, well-commented code, right?
Not so much. This is a solo hobby project, and represents a fair bit of stumbling and learning. I'll be cleaning up as I go along. Promise. ;)

What's next?
Right now, this sucker just needs some folks to kick the tires and test it out for horrible bugs and errors and make suggestions for improvements. Output is fairly solid (again, feedback is needed): both the character sheet and statblock. There is no advancement at the moment (since there is none in the GURPS Lite document).

How do I get it?
Add this url as a new source in the updates window of Hero Lab:
GURPS Lite v0.4 (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5964125/herolab/gurpslite/updates.xml)

[Kairos]

If anyone wants to have a look at the data files, here is the source (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5964125/herolab/gurpslite/updates.xml) to add in your Hero Lab updates dialog.

Still working on it (a lot of advantages/disadvantages don't "work" yet, clean up needs doing, editor is not complete, etc), but would welcome any feedback.

Thanks!

[dartnet]

You rock sir!

[dartnet]

First Bug report.

-<errors>


-<depends priority="5000" phase="Setup" name="Thing adEnhDodge: Eval Script #1">

<after priority="4100" phase="Traits" name="Thing trDodge: Calc Initial Dodge"/>

</depends>

</errors>

[Kairos]

First Bug report.

-<errors>


-<depends priority="5000" phase="Setup" name="Thing adEnhDodge: Eval Script #1">

<after priority="4100" phase="Traits" name="Thing trDodge: Calc Initial Dodge"/>

</depends>

</errors>

That was fast! :)

Heh. Serves me right for pushing this out late at night. :P Anyway, fixed.

[dartnet]

That what I do. ;)

[Kairos]

That what I do. ;)

That's what I'm looking for! :) Thanks!

[jbearwillis]

I don't know if this is happen to any one else, but I just downloaded the latest update and no matter what I do it still shows that I need to download and update the file. Just thought I would let you know, other then that - it's working great. Awesome job on your file.
Thanks Jbear

[Kairos]

I don't know if this is happen to any one else, but I just downloaded the latest update and no matter what I do it still shows that I need to download and update the file. Just thought I would let you know, other then that - it's working great. Awesome job on your file.
Thanks Jbear

You know I realize I didn't update the data files since the recent HL update. I'll try that later today. Thanks for the feedback!

[Mathias]

Normally, the error about needing to update again after installing the update happens if the version number in the upload xml isn't identical to the version listed in the <release> element of the definition.def in the file.

[Kairos]

Normally, the error about needing to update again after installing the update happens if the version number in the upload xml isn't identical to the version listed in the <release> element of the definition.def in the file.

Yeah, that did it! Thanks again, Mathias.

[Kairos]

Working on finishing up the advantages and disadvantages and plugging them into reaction rolls etc.

[Kairos]

Coming up in v0.3
(I'll update this post as stuff gets done)

- Character sheet formatting tweaks.
- Handedness field in personal tab now includes ambidexterity option, which bootstraps the appropriate advantage
- Customizable disadvantage limit
- Fixed alignment issue on basic tab and skill tab

[GunbunnyFuFu]

Kairos,

Although I can't figure out how to do all the bootstrap and code, I can sure enter data like no one's business. Let me know if you need help in data entering with this..I'll be glad to help!

GB

[Kairos]

Kairos,

Although I can't figure out how to do all the bootstrap and code, I can sure enter data like no one's business. Let me know if you need help in data entering with this..I'll be glad to help!

GB

Actually, all the data from the GURPS Lite document is in there. I do need to get the editor set up, though. :/ I haven't really messed with that yet, though.

[Kairos]

OK. v0.3 has some minor tweaks and some (pretty hasty) editor customizations. Would love it if someone would try that out and let me know what questions/issues you run into.

Next step is the tactical console.

[GunbunnyFuFu]

Hadn't played much with the character generation stuff yet (making some NPCs for a Zombie Apoc game), but in Advantages, Reputation is listed with both it's +5 value, and -5 value. In Disadvantages, Reputation is listed as variable, however, the disadvantage text states it is below-average Wealth

[GunbunnyFuFu]

I would also assume that if we wished to add the full blown GURPS skill list, we could do so with the editor?

[GunbunnyFuFu]

Also, looking at Area Knowledge, you *may* want to include a fill-in space so that a player can fill in where "Home Base" is. Also, if you have 0 points in a skill, the skill roll *should* be default, based on the skill. For example, if I've got DX 12, and 0 points in Guns - Rifle, as a DX/Easy default, meaning it should default to DX -4 (8) if I've got 0 points in the skill, correct?

*EDIT* NVM...figured out the problem with defaults. Operator error...nothing to see here!

[Kairos]

Hadn't played much with the character generation stuff yet (making some NPCs for a Zombie Apoc game), but in Advantages, Reputation is listed with both it's +5 value, and -5 value. In Disadvantages, Reputation is listed as variable, however, the disadvantage text states it is below-average Wealth

Wow. Sloppy. Fixed in the next release. I'm transitioning jobs right now, but will get back to this sucker before long. Stay tuned.

[Kairos]

I would also assume that if we wished to add the full blown GURPS skill list, we could do so with the editor?

You *should* be able to mostly. The scope of this is really just the GURPS Lite document, so there are bound to be structures in the real GURPS books that this won't handle so well, but I did factor in alternate defaults (i.e., to other skills, not just to attributes). Again, I'll be looking more closely at this shortly.

[Kairos]

Also, looking at Area Knowledge, you *may* want to include a fill-in space so that a player can fill in where "Home Base" is.

Good idea. Done. Thanks for the feedback.

[GunbunnyFuFu]

I'll continue to play with it. While I'm running a GURPS game, it's not a lite game, though I'll likely make my NPCs with the Lite rules (and your HL kit) just so that I can work through and help find problems, etc. I'll also use the editor to add some weapons and stuff (you can never have enough weapons in the Zombie Apocalypse!)

Thanks for this, Kairos!

[Kairos]

I'll continue to play with it. While I'm running a GURPS game, it's not a lite game, though I'll likely make my NPCs with the Lite rules (and your HL kit) just so that I can work through and help find problems, etc. I'll also use the editor to add some weapons and stuff (you can never have enough weapons in the Zombie Apocalypse!)

Thanks for this, Kairos!

Thanks for using it! And by all means, try as hard as you can to break it. :)

[Bubba_OH]

I play in GunbunnyFuFu's game and am up for coding. I use XML a little at work, so I understand how it works (I'm a programmer/analyst). I have hacked a little bit with the data files and have been successful making a few additions (not very hard).

I am a little confused about the thing_skills.dat file. Under Gun Skills, you have L.A.W. Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun & S.M.G. Down around line 3430, you have LAW and SMG (no periods). Is this a bug, or do I not understand this well enough yet (quite likely).

[Kairos]

I play in GunbunnyFuFu's game and am up for coding. I use XML a little at work, so I understand how it works (I'm a programmer/analyst). I have hacked a little bit with the data files and have been successful making a few additions (not very hard).

I am a little confused about the thing_skills.dat file. Under Gun Skills, you have L.A.W. Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun & S.M.G. Down around line 3430, you have LAW and SMG (no periods). Is this a bug, or do I not understand this well enough yet (quite likely).

Hi, Bubba:

Sorry. New job is keeping me hopping.

I think what you're referring to is this:

<arrayval field="usrArray" index="4" value="S.M.G."/>

and further down, this:


elseif (compare(field[usrSelect].text, field[usrArray].arraytext[4]) = 0) then
perform assign[Spec.SMG]


To put it simply, the first item is structure: it defines an array field and a set of values that provide content for a menu in a skills tab template.

The second item is script. Hero Lab uses a series of evaluation cycles to process the data files, and that second item is a part of a eval script which gets interpreted at a given phase of that cycle. This particular bit of code is simply applying a tag to the thing/pick based on the value the user selects in that array menu (the one defined in the first item).

Tag definitions can't have periods, hence the SMG.

[Bubba_OH]

Thanks for confirming that this is NOT a typo/bug. I have been playing with this for less than a week so be kind. :)

I am working on adding "Recoil" and then "Bulk" to weapons. Slow but steady.

[dartnet]

Hi all. Any idea when Spells are going to be added?

I am in a GURPish mood.

[Kairos]

Hey, dartnet:

I took a new job about a month ago, and I've been on the road for a good bit of it. I haven't had much chance to direct my attention back to this ruleset yet. The big change that needs to be done to it so far is to alter the way skill defaults are handled.

It's not forgotten!

[Micco]

Woot! Thanks Kairos for doing this. I'll definitely test it out. I just want to make sure you all know that this effort is very much appreciated!

[Noctifer]

I was thinking about taking a crack at expanding your work to include data from GURPS 4th Edition Core (and, eventually, beyond). Before I started digging though, am I duplicating anyone else's effort? Is GURPS Lite for Hero Lab still under development?

Thanks for any information you can swing my way.

[Kairos]

I was thinking about taking a crack at expanding your work to include data from GURPS 4th Edition Core (and, eventually, beyond). Before I started digging though, am I duplicating anyone else's effort? Is GURPS Lite for Hero Lab still under development?

Thanks for any information you can swing my way.

I took a new job in April which has really depleted my capacity to work on my rulesets. I'm not sure anyone is working on anything at this point.

The biggest hurdle in going from Lite to regular would be overhauling how things like skill pre-reqs work. In Lite, it's pretty static. In regular GURPS, it can vary greatly and include different pre-reqs at different values. So all that has to be ripped out and redone. Not impossible, but I've just not had any time to devote to the project these past six months or so. :(

[Noctifer]

No worries, I'm digging into it now. Though I've started a couple of projects in the past and done a lot to add to the WoD HeroLab rules for my own use, this'll be my first major project, so be prepared to have your (and anyone else willing to chime in) brain picked as time permits :)

First up: Adding a logo.

Second: Updating the descriptions of the existing Advantages, Disadvantages and Skills (and using that to identify what I need to expand on)

I'll start up a new thread when I've something more substantive to report.

[EightBitz]

No worries, I'm digging into it now. Though I've started a couple of projects in the past and done a lot to add to the WoD HeroLab rules for my own use, this'll be my first major project, so be prepared to have your (and anyone else willing to chime in) brain picked as time permits :)

First up: Adding a logo.

Second: Updating the descriptions of the existing Advantages, Disadvantages and Skills (and using that to identify what I need to expand on)

I'll start up a new thread when I've something more substantive to report.

Are you just adding content from 4th Edition, or are you intending to do a full 4th Edition data set? I ask, because one of the differences is that in 4th Edition, the secondary attributes, while still being derived from primary attributes, can also be separately modified.

For instance, one can spend points on directly increasting HP, Will, Per, FP, Basic Move, Basic Speed, etc.

I made some progress on this point, though my attempt at doing so was awkward, clumsy and imperfect. But I can see if I still have the files. Thought what I did is probably very rudimentary.

[ibecker]

Hi, folks. I'm a fan of GURPS, and with some free time coming up, I was going to offer to assist with adding GURPS to Hero Lab. Before I did that, I wanted to check with SJGames that it would be OK with them (since there's no equivalent to the OGL for GURPS).

Their response was that this is definitely *not* allowed, per their Online Policy. In fact, they went so far as to say that, since they sell their own Character Generator, they would consider a competing program (including GURPS for Hero Lab) to be "piracy". The person I communicated with was very nice about it, but very clear: SJGames does not like the idea of a community addition to Hero Lab for GURPS.

I'm not a lawyer, so I can't comment on whether their legal argument would stand up, but I wanted to warn you all. I believe that people here have good intentions, and just want to help their fellow gamers and promote their favorite games. I'd hate to see people here get into trouble because the publishers take a different view.

[Kairos]

Hi, folks. I'm a fan of GURPS, and with some free time coming up, I was going to offer to assist with adding GURPS to Hero Lab. Before I did that, I wanted to check with SJGames that it would be OK with them (since there's no equivalent to the OGL for GURPS).

Their response was that this is definitely *not* allowed, per their Online Policy. In fact, they went so far as to say that, since they sell their own Character Generator, they would consider a competing program (including GURPS for Hero Lab) to be "piracy". The person I communicated with was very nice about it, but very clear: SJGames does not like the idea of a community addition to Hero Lab for GURPS.

I'm not a lawyer, so I can't comment on whether their legal argument would stand up, but I wanted to warn you all. I believe that people here have good intentions, and just want to help their fellow gamers and promote their favorite games. I'd hate to see people here get into trouble because the publishers take a different view.

Fair enough. Removed. I thought the GURPS LITE data files fell squarely under the following section of their online policy (http://www.sjgames.com/general/online_policy.html), but if they say it doesn't, then it doesn't:

Create a character generator or other game aid?

If you mean a "game aid" or "player aid" program, yes, you certainly can, if it's for a PC-type computer and you include the appropriate notices. We currently do not allow "apps" for mobile devices to be created using our content or trademarks. Yes, this seems like an arbitrary distinction, and as we learn more and the legal and technical issues become more clear, we may be able to change this, but please don't write us saying "I want to write an app, so change your policy," because the decision is not related to the number of pleas we get from would-be app coders. Sorry.

We want to ENCOURAGE our fans to create these programs, share them with the community, and have fun doing it. If you want to charge money for a game aid based on our work, the Online Policy does NOT apply . . . you must either get a license from us, or sell us the game aid for distribution as a regular product, and either way we'll hold you to professional standards. Email licensing@sjgames.com with a formal proposal letter.

We do, however, have some advice for creators of game aid programs. First, provide documentation. Some simple instructions on how to use the most basic features will be a big help to users. Second, support your creation.

[ChrisRevocateur]

since they sell their own Character Generator

Unfortunately, at least IMHO, their character generator sucks.

[ibecker]

I thought the GURPS LITE data files fell squarely under the following section of their online policy (http://www.sjgames.com/general/online_policy.html), but if they say it doesn't, then it doesn't:

I agree - I thought the same thing. I figured I'd ask them anyway, just to be on the safe side. I pointed out that I thought the Hero Lab matched their description of the allowed "game aids" perfectly. Their answer:

"I understand where this would seem confusing, and would be happy to explain. A game aid, in this case, would be something like a dice roller, creating your own campaign, or something else minor. We actually sell our own character generator, so creating your own is currently viewed as piracy by our company, even if there are differences in format.

It would be like opening a burger stand next to a Burger King*, then advertising and selling Whoppers. Burger King won't like it, and would probably shut you down. On the other hand, if you had a lemonade stand across the street, that would a) enhance many burger-consumers' experiences, and b) not detract from Burger King's Whopper sales. Even if Burger King sells its own lemonade, it will be a different recipe, and lemonade is not something that can be copyrighted. You might even have Burger King employees buy the lemonade to drink with their lunch.

So basically, we want to encourage people to set up lemonade stands, car washes, and bake sales for GURPS. Just please don't sell our Whoppers.

*This reference is intended for educational purposes only. It in no way expresses my or Steve Jackson Games' opinions of Burger King, Whoppers, or lemonade stands. This analogy is currently in beta-testing; please let us know if it is too confusing, or could use some tweaking."
- Max Clontz (max@sjgames)


I agree with ChrisRevocateur that the currently available tools for GURPS leave a lot to be desired. I think that adding GURPS support to Hero Lab would only be a boost for GURPS itself. It is, however, their game, and without something equivalent to the OGL, they have the right to set whatever rules they like.

[Kairos]

...they have the right to set whatever rules they like.

I wholeheartedly agree.

[ChrisRevocateur]

They are trying to get people to buy their character builder, which no one even wants (it's no easier than just doing it manually on paper). They're shooting themselves in the foot.

Their analogy is flawed too. It's more like someone opening a build your own burger shop next to Burger King, and one of your customers saying to all the other customers "Hey, these are the things on the Whopper!" Still something that they might want to stop, but LoneWolf isn't making money off of Whoppers, they're making money off allowing their customers to make the burger they want. The "whoppers" these customers make have better ingredients than the original too.

Also, in their direct communication they say that they mean simple digital tools, not character generators, but their published public policy specifically calls out character generators. I may like GURPS and Munchkin, but I like SJG less and less every time I hear about them.

[EightBitz]

*sigh*

I'm done with SJG. Mind you, I already have a decent collection of GURPS books and Munchkin sets, so it's probably an empty gesture in that regard, but I'm done recommending it, too. I now consider them customer-hostile.

I can understand not wanting a full-on GURPS chargen, but GURPS Lite is something they're giving away. There's no reason to not allow this.

[TaylorBland]

your dropbox says that there is an error. i really wanted this dataset but can't get it. so you have another link, or can you fix the old one? GURPS is cool and this could help me out a lot. thank you

[Noctifer]

Needless to say, this is more than a little annoying. Back in the early 90s, SJG was ahead of the curve when it came to technology and using it to promote their product. To the point that the FBI thought they were using their tech to hack (or create manuals for hacking) and raided them.

Nowadays, they're fast becoming a relic. I still love GURPS, but SJG is getting frustratingly outdated in their business practices.

[Noven]

Needless to say, this is more than a little annoying. Back in the early 90s, SJG was ahead of the curve when it came to technology and using it to promote their product. To the point that the FBI thought they were using their tech to hack (or create manuals for hacking) and raided them.

Nowadays, they're fast becoming a relic. I still love GURPS, but SJG is getting frustratingly outdated in their business practices.

This reminds me much about Palladium Books and their antiquated policies.

[texaspoet]

Except, of course, that Kevin Siembieda just recently gave Sean Patrick Fannon the go-ahead to produce RIFTS for Savage Worlds, which is now in development.