Cloud subscriptions

[einhager]

Hello,

I've been following Realm Works since I heard about it after the Kickstarter campaign ended and I was reading the Sept. newsletter that LW is working on the Realm Works cloud server.

I was wondering if Realm Works will be able to access or be setup to access different cloud servers, either existing online cloud services like Dropbox, Box, etc that utilizes group (aka company) based cloud access (just an example) or personal ones that exist on local boxes not just LW's. Will there be a separate server-side setup for Realm Works to facilitate that kind of setup on local cloud servers that sits apart from the planned "subscription" base model that I saw being offered to early adopters on Kickstarter?

Are there any early details about the subscription levels and possibly estimated pricing for those levels?

[llothos]

For full functionality the answer would be no. But you can save the files to various cloud storage and depending on file structure it may be possible to have a "player" folder. But to have them go to a Web client and view player data the gm had revealed that will require team works cloud service. Sounds like pricing starts at free but I don't think they have indicated any specific pricing model yet or what each plan would include.

I'm looking forward to this product and depending on the pricing I would gladly pay $5-10/month if I can simply share with my players on their own devices via Web client.

[eponette]

I'm looking forward to this product and depending on the pricing I would gladly pay $5-10/month if I can simply share with my players on their own devices via Web client.

Personally, I wouldn't... This is the new gold mines of software... Asking you to pay for having your data on the cloud. And at the end, without knowing it, you spend 50+ $ par month... and your data are spread on different servers. therefore I prefer to have all centralized (on a dropbox or similar). Cloud computing doesn't mean mist computing.

[pyremius]

The storage of the data is trivial. The part that's not trivial is the manipulation of that data - filtering the data so the user only sees what they are approved to see, syncing the data so that changes made on one system aren't overwritten by changes made on another system (unless they are supposed to), importing data purchased from other users, selling our own creations to be imported into other player's Realms (without sending them the parts of our data we're not selling), etc. That is all server-side code which represents what the cloud is doing for us. If it were only about storage I doubt they'd have bothered because the other services you list already do that - but it's really about how that stored data can be manipulated for us by their servers.

[Zaphod Beebledoc]

I was wondering if Realm Works will be able to access or be setup to access different cloud servers, either existing online cloud services like Dropbox, Box, etc that utilizes group (aka company) based cloud access (just an example) or personal ones that exist on local boxes not just LW's. Will there be a separate server-side setup for Realm Works to facilitate that kind of setup on local cloud servers that sits apart from the planned "subscription" base model that I saw being offered to early adopters on Kickstarter?

I believe that Lone Wolf discourage use of cloud services because it will interfere with their own cloud service leading to potential data loss.

Are there any early details about the subscription levels and possibly estimated pricing for those levels?

Not yet. I believe Lone Wolf are waiting to see what sort of data usage the Beta testers and the Early Access users have before they set charges/levels. Though of course this is my own understanding and you'd best wait for official confirmation of this.

I'm looking forward to this product and depending on the pricing I would gladly pay $5-10/month if I can simply share with my players on their own devices via Web client.

Part of the aim of Realm Works is to be able to show what characters know, so the players will be able to view what their character knows online for free.

There will also be an option to download the Realm Works client and view the info on their own computer(s). As far as I know, this will not be free.

[llothos]

Personally, I wouldn't... This is the new gold mines of software... Asking you to pay for having your data on the cloud. And at the end, without knowing it, you spend 50+ $ par month... and your data are spread on different servers. therefore I prefer to have all centralized (on a dropbox or similar). Cloud computing doesn't mean mist computing.

...i'm not sure how a monthly sub of $5-$10 would turn into $50??? But i do agree that monthly subs are pure profit for the company but it does of course cost something to maintain the servers though that they intend to run for this.

It's not the data storage that i'd be paying for it's the ability to link that data so my players can see that I'm interested in as well as being able to edit my campaign from a simple web interface. If that part is free then I'll likely not sub but I need to see what the various tiers offer before I determine anything.

Something like dropbox won't allow me to do that, sure I can backup my data and have it on my desktop and then open the campaign on my laptop for the gaming sessions but with the cloud service all integrated in that works too. (i'll likely save the files to my dropbox as well though) but really wonder how the editing when away from home (and all you have is web client) will work and how that will sync with your computers???

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/610004753/realm-works-streamlined-rpg-campaign-tools/posts/400671

[eponette]

...i'm not sure how a monthly sub of $5-$10 would turn into $50???

No, But 5 'cloud' subscriptions (Dropbox, Realm works, ...) would. :)

[Nikmal]

Why would you need 5 subscriptions??

[eponette]

Why would you need 5 subscriptions??

Ok, I was not clear...

Let me start again. With this new technology (named 'cloud'), many software companies propose for a small fee (5 to 10 dollars, sometimes more) to host the data you create with their software (like Real works's cloud will host Realm Works data). If you use RW and nothing else, OK, you pay 5-10 $. But if you use many other software that propose the same thing (aka cloud), you end up paying 5-10 $ times the number of software you use. (i.e. one for RW, one for your cooking application, one for you car tuning application, ...)

That was my point (but not very important, just my 2 cents about the 'cloud' subject) :)

[PatJe]

I would compare this RW-cloud rather to other online campaign management sites than to dropbox. It's not only about data storage, but about to provide player access to this data and filter these data. Maybe - if you want to - to exchange data with other GMs.

If you are using it only for yourself, it might be possible - even if more complicated - to work with backup files, if you are using different computers.

[weogarth]

I would compare this RW-cloud rather to other online campaign management sites than to dropbox. It's not only about data storage, but about to provide player access to this data and filter these data. Maybe - if you want to - to exchange data with other GMs.

If you are using it only for yourself, it might be possible - even if more complicated - to work with backup files, if you are using different computers.As PatJe pointed out, this is not 'just a place to dump files for storage'. It's file storage yes, but it's hosted on a server with authentication and other logic to help you share out the portions that you authorized your players to see as well as data-checking and synchronization routines.

If you're just looking for moving from one computer to another, I have been successfully doing so by dumping from RW into a special folder in my own dropbox and then restoring them on my other computer. I wish there was a way to point the save location on both computers to DropBox but LWD has said "Bad Things Might Happen" and my data is too important to risk that, so I don't.

Hope this helps.

[lifer4700]

For full functionality the answer would be no. But you can save the files to various cloud storage and depending on file structure it may be possible to have a "player" folder. But to have them go to a Web client and view player data the gm had revealed that will require team works cloud service. Sounds like pricing starts at free but I don't think they have indicated any specific pricing model yet or what each plan would include.

I'm looking forward to this product and depending on the pricing I would gladly pay $5-10/month if I can simply share with my players on their own devices via Web client.

Wait a minute...

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that Realm Works will REQUIRE me to host my files and server logic on a computer outside my home?

Why?

Security is the only answer I've heard so far, but honestly, I trust my own server's security more than anyone elses'. Playstation Network anyone?


Please tell me that I've misunderstood!

[pyremius]

I believe that Wolf Lair's vision for Realm Works is that it is a solution: for accessing your campaign information from multiple devices across multiple operating systems; sharing selected snippets of information with your players (including date-stamping when the sharing occurs) so everyone has accurate information and a record of when it was learned; player additions in the form of journals and campaign notes; and sale/purchase of user-created content to other users.

All of these functions require very complex back-end processing capabilities, and functions best/easiest through a cloud solution built on top of an RPG-optimized database.

I do not know if you will be able to opt-out of cloud ecosystem or not. If you can, you will be saving Wolf Lair some money in the form of bandwidth/storage/processing, but the cost to you will be the loss of all features that rely on their servers. You would still be left with an absolutely amazing purpose-built database that will allow you to document and organize your gaming material and use it at the table if you desire - but that's not how the product is intended to work.

[Farling]

You can use RW perfectly well as a stand-alone tool.

The server option provides a way for your players to see the player-viewable data on a web site (or their own copy of RW). Without using the server then your players will only be able to the player-viewable data on a screen attached to your own computer.

[lifer4700]

I believe that Wolf Lair's vision for Realm Works is that it is a solution: for accessing your campaign information from multiple devices across multiple operating systems; sharing selected snippets of information with your players (including date-stamping when the sharing occurs) so everyone has accurate information and a record of when it was learned; player additions in the form of journals and campaign notes; and sale/purchase of user-created content to other users.

All of these functions require very complex back-end processing capabilities, and functions best/easiest through a cloud solution built on top of an RPG-optimized database.



I agree with everything you said, except for the "easiest through a cloud solution" part. Easier for whom?

I work for a software company, and one of our main products is an enterprise-level PLM solution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_lifecycle_management

I see no difference between this software and what we, and our competitors, have other than this comes pre-tailored for a specific data model.

I can run my company's powerful, enterprise-level PDM/PLM software on something as simple as my laptop with zero issues. Log in, perform workflow, design product platform requirements, etc. Everything that I could do if it were being hosted on ultra-powerful web hosting hardware.

Of course, if I'm going to have 10,000+ users concurrently hitting my services, then the laptop solution will fail. But most of my games only have about 4-8 players. And my server hardware at home is quite reasonable. (mutlicore, multiple Gb, RAID 5, etc)

Does our PLM software have a cloud solution available for our large customers that don't want to maintain it themselves? Certainly.

Can our customers run our software on their own hardware if they want? Certainly.

Is there any difference in available functionality? None.

-----------------------------

Second, I'm a bit confused on the "and sale/purchase of user-created content to other users"

I would never require my players to buy the content of my games, or 'pitch in' for the cost of any software I've purchased in order to run my games.

Also, I occasionally use pre-printed, copy-written material, so I doubt I would be able to charge anything for it even if I wanted to.

[pyremius]

I don't have any knowledge from which to discuss Wolf Lair's business strategies so I'll have to pass with the comment "anything I say would be pure guesswork, and is therefore meaningless."

Second, I'm a bit confused on the "and sale/purchase of user-created content to other users"

I would never require my players to buy the content of my games, or 'pitch in' for the cost of any software I've purchased in order to run my games.

Also, I occasionally use pre-printed, copy-written material, so I doubt I would be able to charge anything for it even if I wanted to.

I wasn't clear enough on this point. This feature is for either amateur or professional designers to sell their creations to other game masters. If I develop a unique tavern (perhaps a multi-story location in and on a giant tree) I can make the resulting data set available for sale to other players. You as a GM could decide that would be a great location to add to your world, and rather then recreate something similar you purchase my creation and spend the rest of your time creating additional encounters for your players. At the professional level, there are plenty of game companies developing their own material for sale, from single encounters or even characters on up to entire worlds. Rather than typing in all of the material yourself you will be able to purchase the data for importing directly into your games.

[lifer4700]

Ahh, I see. An in-game* marketplace. That makes sense, I guess - I wasn't thinking along those lines.

That seems to be the way of most software these days. Roll20 has it available, d20Pro also, along with many others.



* - ANTI-FLAME DISCLAIMER: I realize Realm Works is not a game. It's a figure of speech. 8)

[Nikmal]

Pyremius,
The cloud is meant to share information with others. Not just the players in your home game but other people that you might want to later on if you should choose to do so. If you would rather not do so as it seems you don't. You do not need to subscribe to the cloud. What you suggested can work too. As long as they had their own copies of Realmworks as either player versions and or the full version. At least this is my understanding.

So, basically you can transfer files and such through your own ad-hoc server or network on a more private basis. As mentioned though you will not be able to share published material unless with the permission of said publishers. :)

Hope that answers your concerns and this is the way I understood their meaning for what they want to do with the cloud services and the way I am understanding their envisioning of it.

[pyremius]

I'm not particularly interested in sharing information outside of my gaming group as I don't have the creativity to develop very much that others would be interested in - but I am interested in the flip side of receiving content from those more creative then I.

My primary interest, however, is in the ways they are planning to use the cloud capabilities for my gaming group: accessing the data from any device, anywhere for review or creation (waiting for a dentist's appointment), and sharing selected information with my players (especially once they complete per-character sharing and multiple characters per player).

[Nikmal]

I'm not particularly interested in sharing information outside of my gaming group as I don't have the creativity to develop very much that others would be interested in - but I am interested in the flip side of receiving content from those more creative then I.

My primary interest, however, is in the ways they are planning to use the cloud capabilities for my gaming group: accessing the data from any device, anywhere for review or creation (waiting for a dentist's appointment), and sharing selected information with my players (especially once they complete per-character sharing and multiple characters per player).

That is my understanding of how the cloud services will work sir. Both of your points above :)

[PatJe]

We don't know, how the fees for cloud service will be. But maybe - after the release - it could be nice to have two cloud services: One to share content via a kind of marketplace, and one to share it just with your players and to sync it on your computers.

But this discussions should wait until we have more information on pricing and services.

[broodhunter2]

I'm not particularly interested in sharing information outside of my gaming group as I don't have the creativity to develop very much that others would be interested in - but I am interested in the flip side of receiving content from those more creative then I.

My primary interest, however, is in the ways they are planning to use the cloud capabilities for my gaming group: accessing the data from any device, anywhere for review or creation (waiting for a dentist's appointment), and sharing selected information with my players (especially once they complete per-character sharing and multiple characters per player).

Ok, well here is a question, if your running an adventure or using material from a given game source, how can you import maps, stats, or basically anything on to your files (which are maintained/held by LW) when they are copyrighted to another company? Can you? Must you get said company's permission (Hah!) or will you need a calvin clone type version of the information to upload?

[liz]

Ok, well here is a question, if your running an adventure or using material from a given game source, how can you import maps, stats, or basically anything on to your files (which are maintained/held by LW) when they are copyrighted to another company? Can you? Must you get said company's permission (Hah!) or will you need a calvin clone type version of the information to upload?

Similar to using a print adventure that you purchased by a publisher, as long as you are using it for personal purposes (IE - your game session), you can put it into Realm Works. If you share it with the wider gaming community or attempt to sell it, then you could be at risk for licensing issues.

Hopefully your desired adventure will be sold by the publisher within Realm Works and it won't be an issue at all!

[rob]

Just to clarify Liz's comment above, you CAN reveal material to the members of your gaming group through the course of play, just like you would with print/PDF material. That's the intended use of the material when it's sold by the publisher. However, you CANNOT just share an entire adventure with someone else. Again, just like would be the case with print/PDF material.

Hope this helps! :)