Vehicle Sensor Packages

[MentalTyranny]

I recently bought Hero Lab because I am playing a Drone Rigger in Shadowrun. Relatively soon I found two bugs regarding sensor packages on vehicles which I emailed to tech support. Here was the text of my email:

I have found two errors regarding SR4arsenal in Hero Lab. Both revolve around drones and sensors. According to Arsenal pg 105 and accompanying errata, “cameras and microphones may come equipped with additional vision or audio enhancements.” The description of the camera and microphone sensors in Shadowrun Twentieth Anniversary Edition pg 334 listings for refer back to page 332 and 333 respectively, where these devices clearly have their own capacity for visual and audio enhancements. In Hero Lab, under the vehicle (minion) section of the portfolio, on the gear tab, the sensor packages may be correctly customized with cameras and microphones. However, these cameras or microphones cannot be further customized at all. In fact, the audio and visual enhancements are inappropriately listed as customizations directly under sensor packages, instead of under cameras and microphones.

For example, a microdrone sensor package (which has capacity 1) could include just a Rating 1 Camera with Thermographic Vision, or even a Rating 1 Microphone with a Spatial Recognizer (note that micro versions of cameras and microphones are available at rating 1 and therefore capacity 1 only, see SR4A, 332 and 333). Currently, there is way in Hero Lab to appropriately build these sensor packages, or those of any size with cameras and microphones at any rating customized with visual and audio enhancements.

The second problem I do believe has been reported before. On the same page of Arsenal and its errata it says, “[i]f a character improves the ratings of all of the individual components in a sensor package, the overall Sensor rating of the vehicle should also be improved accordingly.” Under the vehicle (minion) section of the portfolio, on the gear tab, I found the sensor packages that may be customized with sensors at higher ratings. However, if I fill the sensor package to capacity with sensors that are all above the vehicles sensor rating, the sensor rating of the vehicle remains unchanged.

Please let know if there is a work around for any of these issues.

Unfortunately, I got the following reply:


I don't think there's a need to place the thermographic option specifically on the camera option within the sensor package. I think placing both into the same package properly represents that you have a camera with thermographic capability.

The issue of specific vehicle sensors has been reported before, and is already on the to-do list.

Tech support is missing that cameras on SR4A 332 and microphones on SR4A 333 have 1-6 (equal to rating) ADDITIONAL capacity. The camera and microphone sensor description on pg 334 clearly refers back to this listing. Like I tried to literate in my email, there is no way in Hero Lab to install a microdrone sensor package (which has capacity 1) to include just a Rating 1 Camera with Thermographic Vision, which is allowed in the rules. By listing both cameras and their vision enhancements in the same package, the generator does not represent the rules.

I sent a reply to tech support, but I have a feeling they will not get it. Any ideas? Also, is there an easy way within sensor package modification to give cameras and microphones there own capacity for visual and audio enhancements?

[Redjack]

You have described the rule correctly. This is causing me an issue as well. I second the request to have this corrected.

[Redjack]

I have engaged support in regards to my ticket. It appears there was a misunderstanding on the difference between a drone/vehicles sensor capacity for sensors and a visual/audio sensor's capacity for enhancements. I sent a detailed reply citing the rules that I hoped clarified the difference. Awaiting a reply now.

[Thyrin]

I also would like to see this fixed. Riggers cause enough problems for my players already without having matters confused by a bug. ;)

[Redjack]

I also would like to see this fixed. Riggers cause enough problems for my players already without having matters confused by a bug. ;)Sadly, the developer has misunderstood this rule and perceives that the software is functioning correctly. I have provided multiple selections from the rules to provide the correct interpretation but to no avail.

I was informed that a clarification with Catalyst was forthcoming on this, but sadly 30+ days later no love on getting that corrected.

[Redjack]

I do not feel that support for this issue reflects the following marketing statement for the product:
We license the right to produce data packages for almost every game system Hero Lab supports. That means we’re working directly with the companies that produce your favorite games, so we can ensure that our software supports their games optimally.
I am still awaiting resolution for this issue.

[MentalTyranny]

I resolved this issue using the editor. I also fixed audio enhancement and select sound filter to only take 1 capacity at higher levels (like visual enhancement).

CLICK HERE (http://www.filedropper.com/modsen)

[RavenX]

Sadly, the developer has misunderstood this rule and perceives that the software is functioning correctly. I have provided multiple selections from the rules to provide the correct interpretation but to no avail.

I was informed that a clarification with Catalyst was forthcoming on this, but sadly 30+ days later no love on getting that corrected.

Working with Catalyst Game Labs is sometimes difficult. The company releases items into Shadowrun, that upon careful inspection, should have had some proofreading done on before pushing the books and pdfs out the door. It has been difficult to get answers from them at times, sometimes taking a couple months (in some cases much longer) before they even get back to anyone with clarification. Not to mention they are heavily working on Shadowrun 5th edition right now which makes contacting them a bit more difficult. (If you don't believe me, you can try their forums, I've asked for clarification up there a few times and it took a while before anyone replied, some of my threads still haven't been replied to by anyone from Catalyst).

There is also the issue of time. When bugs are reported, they are put into a to-do list and get fixed when the programmers have time to do them. There is a lot of new content released for various systems, Pathfinder especially, that needs to get done and it can take a while to get around to bug fixes. The programming team has a lot on their plates right now. Sometimes you can write code for 12+ hours a day and still not have enough time in the day to get everything done that you'd like to.

If you haven't heard anything regarding clarification from Catalyst, then the inquiry sent may not have been answered by Catalyst yet. I apologize if it is an inconvenience for any of you, but sometimes things with Catalyst don't get answered as quickly as I would like either. And by the time they do get back to the developers here, other projects that were started need to be finished before bug fixes can be implemented.

Please be patient with development team and make sure you reporting bugs via the official bug reporting mechanism. All I can suggest is to make sure you post bugs found in the official bug reports link here, but I cannot guarantee it will speed up repairs: http://www.wolflair.com/root/bugreport.php?project=shadowrun4

[Redjack]

Working with Catalyst Game Labs is sometimes difficult. Understood, but I do not make the claimwe’re working directly with the companies that produce your favorite games, so we can ensure that our software supports their games optimally

All I can suggest is to make sure you post bugs found in the official bug reports link here, but I cannot guarantee it will speed up repairs: http://www.wolflair.com/root/bugreport.php?project=shadowrun4I reported the bug in February. As you may note, it is almost June. I feel I have been more than patient...

[Redjack]

I resolved this issue using the editor. I also fixed audio enhancement and select sound filter to only take 1 capacity at higher levels (like visual enhancement).

CLICK HERE (http://www.filedropper.com/modsen)To be honest, I have not even monkeyed with some sort of work around in the editor. I would like the program to support RAW and not have to try and work it out by wrangling the editor. I bought the program to stop manual wrangling stuff.

[Mathias]

We've just gotten our answer:


-- Can a camera or microphone that is installed as a modification of something else, like in a sensor package or a gunsight, have modifications of its own?
The Sensor capacity of a camera is listed as 1-6/[1]. We read this as 1-6 OR [1], meaning that the installed camera has no capacity of its own. A handheld camera, on the other hand, has a capacity of 1-6 (capacity = rating), but cannot be installed in other things. On the other side of this, Arsenal pg. 105, in the Vehicle Sensors section, seems to be implying that the cameras installed in the sensor packages on a vehicle can be modified:
"Likewise, cameras and microphones may come equipped with additional video or audio enhancements (see pp. 323-324, SR 4)."

What seems odd about adding modifications to something that is itself a modification is that it seems to allow you to exceed the space in a sensor package. An RFID sensor, with a capacity of 1, can take either a camera, thermographic vision enhancement, or flare compensation, but if the thermographic and flare compensation are installed into a rating 2 camera, now all three of those enhancements can fit inside the same sensor package.

On the other hand, for a microdrone that only has a micro sensor package, the capacity 1 of that package would only let you install one type of sensor - visual, audio, etc., though it seems that in order to be useful, a microdrone designed for reconnaissance would need at least visual sensors for its autopilot to reach the target, and then audio sensors to record what happens there. Without the option to install the audio in the camera, the drone can't fit all the sensors it needs into the normal sensor package for that size of drone.

Any help or guidance you can provide related to the above would be much appreciated.

JMH: That indeed is a puzzle! But the phrasing of the Arsenal text makes it sound like yes, you can get additional sensor slots by installing things that have sensors already installed on them, so that's the interpretation I'm going to have to go with.


I'll get this implemented soon.

[Redjack]

We've just gotten our answer:



I'll get this implemented soon.
So... Is this working now?