Bug Reports - Version 2.18

[Mathias]

(a bug reports thread for the 7/30/12 update)

[Mad Hamish]

If you have Multiple "Spend Karma" entries under your advancement tab they are grouped so that you can only remove the latest one.

This is annoying if they're for separate things
(In this case one was an adjustment due to the bug buying off In Debt and 1 was an uncategorized karma spend which wasn't related. I was looking to remove the adjustment for removing In Debt and couldn't)

[chaosknight199]

The Program Options for Complex Forms in the Printout are appearing underneath the complex form below it

Ex: An CF of Exploit with (Mute)
the Word (Mute) is inside Spoof

[Ozymandias]

Under the Karma system, Karma costs for Race/Infected/Drake still do not appear to be calculated properly... for example, if I add an Infected quality of Vampire to a Human character, it only costs 40 Karma. Of if I add the Banshee quality to an Elf, it only costs 10 Karma points, while the Elf quality costs 15 Karma points.

And the Drake quality added to either Human or Elf costs nothing at all. Am I missing something?

[LukeZ]

Matrix -> Commlinks -> Modifications
Some modifications (Skinlink, Hardening) are present both under "Commlink/Electronic Modifications" and "Wireless Modifications".
The former costs slots too, the latter don't.

[Mathias]

Matrix -> Commlinks -> Modifications
Some modifications (Skinlink, Hardening) are present both under "Commlink/Electronic Modifications" and "Wireless Modifications".
The former costs slots too, the latter don't.

Unfortunately, I need to support both Unwired's Commlink Modifications section and the original printings of those options - Unwired is so vague about which devices beyond commlinks use their accessory slot mechanism that I want to allow both versions so that individual GMs can decide how they want to interpret those rules for each device. Those without the Unwired book also need to be able to select those devices without using up accessory slots their device won't have.

[LukeZ]

Yes, I was just thinking about that it seemed more a rules glitch...!

[LukeZ]

Armor Modifications:
Gel Pack should add 1 point of modification (it adds none).

I've activated the "Enforce Armor Suit Capacity", but I can put any amount of Capacity without any warning.

The Help description under Details for "Enforce Armor Suit Capacity" and "Enforce Maximum Armor Modification" is wrong (it's a cut/paste of the previous row).

[Canis]

Transys Cybernaut military commlink is misspelt as Transsys.

[Mathias]

Armor Modifications:
Gel Pack should add 1 point of modification (it adds none).

I've activated the "Enforce Armor Suit Capacity", but I can put any amount of Capacity without any warning.

The Help description under Details for "Enforce Armor Suit Capacity" and "Enforce Maximum Armor Modification" is wrong (it's a cut/paste of the previous row).

Please specify which armor you're testing this on.

[LukeZ]

Please specify which armor you're testing this on.

Camouflage Suit

Mmm... the rules talks about "armor suit capacity", but it only gives actual capacity for the "full body armor suit" and the "urban explorer jumpsuit".

For those 2 armor suits the software works correctly, while in any other armor you can put any number of modifications, since there is no maximum capacity set.

Thinking again, this seems more another "rules glitch" and not a "software glitch".

Ok, so it's only the Gel Pack that should add 1 point of modification (it adds none).
"Unrated armor modifications (for example, the gel pack modification) take up 1 (modification) point." (Arsenal, page 44)

And the 2 wrong Help descriptions.

[LukeZ]

Maybe there could be an option to put a Maximum Capacity to items that have none, or generally speaking to tweak the Maximum Capacity of a single item.

[_Pax_]

Can someone explain to me why, exactly, HeroLab doesn't provide a way for an AI character to purchase a commlink or nexus (to serve as their Home Node) during character creation?

I shouldn't have to go and buy a vehicle, so I can install a commlink into it, to be able to invest starting resources into specifying the AI's Home Node ... :(

[Mathias]

Can someone explain to me why, exactly, HeroLab doesn't provide a way for an AI character to purchase a commlink or nexus (to serve as their Home Node) during character creation?

I shouldn't have to go and buy a vehicle, so I can install a commlink into it, to be able to invest starting resources into specifying the AI's Home Node ... :(

Previously reported, this is on the to-do list: http://forums.wolflair.com/showpost.php?p=87433&postcount=92

[_Pax_]

I wasn't reporting a bug, I was asking a question. :(

[Mara]

Unwired has the rule for Adapting Software as a Complex Form. While this
is an optional rule, it is not listed as an option in the optional rules tabs,
and there appears to be no way through HeroLab to adapt the software
from War! and Spygames as complex forms, as they are not showing in the list, and there is no "Custom Complex Form" button.

Still no capability to do a custom magical tradition, despite that being in the corebook.

[Mathias]

Unwired has the rule for Adapting Software as a Complex Form. While this
is an optional rule, it is not listed as an option in the optional rules tabs,
and there appears to be no way through HeroLab to adapt the software
from War! and Spygames as complex forms, as they are not showing in the list, and there is no "Custom Complex Form" button.

Still no capability to do a custom magical tradition, despite that being in the corebook.

You can use the editor to create replacements for the existing programs that are now allowed as complex forms, and the Tradition tab is also available in the editor.

[Kesendeja]

By the way my GM asked me to mention that the Adept Power Fleet and the Metagenetic Quality Celerity both need to work with flight.

[Canis]

The Gecko Grenade mod (which is only applied to grenades) is on the list of weapon modificastions.

And the cluster grenade is shown as an ammo option for grenade launchers even though there is no mini-greande version.

[CeaDawg]

The Dobel Revolution mono bike is not being removed from the dashboard when it is unchecked on the main character to which it belongs to. At first I thought this was caused by a glitch involving some of the mods made to the revolution, but have since found that this is occurring on other characters that have purchased this bike either during character creation, or during game play. Once this vehicle is added to a portfolio the handling of the portfolio slows down to a crawl, even with only the bike and it's owner in the portfolio. This is really bad when several groups are gathered into one portfolio for handling an encounter such as the ambush at the Deer Park Campground in the Dawn of the Artifacts module Midnight. Removing it from the character once the portfolio is stalled out does not improve the situation. I have tried created a stand alone version of the bike as the only character in the portfolio, instead of as a minion, and importing it to the group portfolio. This still slows down the handling of the portfolio, but not to the extent that having it as a minion does. Let me know if you want a copy of the files. I'm running them on an ASUS board with an Intel i3 2.27GHz CPU, 8GB of RAM, & Win 7HP 64b OS.

Oh, in the two cases where the bike as been given to another hero, it has resulted in two of the bikes existing in the portfolio; one on the originating hero and the second on the hero to which the bike was given.

[JDDyslexia]

Using the build point system, the cost of enemy is now half of what it should be (it's halving the sum of incidence and connection rating when calculating the BP bonus of the quality)

[Canis]

Military Helmet is still limited to rating 6, thus limiting the helmet commlink to 6.

[Mathias]

Military Helmet is still limited to rating 6, thus limiting the helmet commlink to 6.

Please report this to Catalyst, not me - they need to provide the costs for the additional levels. War!'s section on extending the ratings of military commlinks did not include a mention of how to modify the military armor helmet installed commlinks from Arsenal, and the differences between the costs of ratings 4, 5, and 6 of those helmets is not equal to the difference between the total costs of the modules/programs for each of those ratings. Without consistant numbers relating the price at each rating of the helmets to the price at each rating of the modules/programs, I can't come up with a formula that would allow me to deduce what the price should be at each rating beyond 7 for those helmets.

[Canis]

I had a sneaking suspicion that was the problem.

Okay, I'll let them know.

[Mad Hamish]

Mystic Adepts seem to be using their split amount for Magic Points to calculate max adept power levels and maximum forces

A mystic Adept with magic 6 (1 for Physical Adept, 5 for magician) is getting an error (You may not have a higher level of your adept power than your Magic Attribute) trying to buy level 2 in any physical adept powers and is showing a maximum force of 10 for casting.

page 195 of the 20th anniversary rulebook has
"For every point of Magic invested in physical abilities the character gets one Power Point that she can use to purchase adept powers. Every point of magic invested in mana-based abilities grants the character one point to use with Magic base skills. For all other purposes, including the determination of the maximum level for adept powers, the character's full magic attribute is used."

[Jareth Valar]

Actually that was cleared up in the FAQ found http://www.shadowrun4.com/game-resources/frequently-asked-questions/

Re-posting for everyone else.

Though mystic adepts must split their Magic between Magic-based skills and adept powers, it says that for all other purposes, including the limits of adept powers, the mystic adept uses his full Magic attribute. Does this mean that a mystic adept with Magic 6 who has allocated 2 points to Magic skills and 4 points to adept powers can cast Force 6 spells without flinching?

The Magic points allocated towards Magic-based skills counts for all aspects of those skills. This includes: Magic-linked skill tests (Summoning, Spellcasting, Enchanting, etc.), maximum spell Force, overcasting, etc.

For a mystic adept’s adept powers, only the points allocated towards adept powers apply. This includes powers that require Magic Tests like Attribute Boost, the maximum rating of leveled adept powers, etc.

For all other purposes—i.e., non-Magic-linked skills—the mystic adept’s full Magic attribute is used: pressing through astral barriers, initiation grade limit, Masking metamagic, being assensed, etc.

So for the example above, a mystic adept with Magic 6 with 2 points devoted to Magic skills and 4 points to adept powers, the maximum Force he can cast at is 4, and anything over Force 2 is Physical Drain. His adept powers are limited to rating 4 or lower.

[Mad Hamish]

Actually that was cleared up in the FAQ found http://www.shadowrun4.com/game-resources/frequently-asked-questions/

Re-posting for everyone else.

Except that the FAQ apparently predates the 20th anniversary edition and was never official errata.
At the very least there should be a house rule option to let you select them at the full magic value as that is what the actual rulebooks say.

[wildfire142]

When using the karma gen system adjusting "Gear Build Point Limit" does nothing, no increase or decrease of max spend funds, works correctly under build points.

[Canis]

Except that the FAQ apparently predates the 20th anniversary edition and was never official errata.

Sorry mate, this is official. When SR4A was being proofed, the proofers went through all the language in the book to help prevent issues, however it was done so with the understanding that it complied with all official FAQ's. Including this one.

If you wish to house rule it, then by all means. But HL uses the official rules according to Catalyst.

And yes, we did mess up on this one.

[Kesendeja]

Dormant Metagenetics is charging double in the karma gen system, not sure about the other creation systems.

[Bardaek]

This might be a Gaming rules issue, but my issue is this.

Building a MCT Fly-Spy drone, I wanted to put all of the electronic attack software on the pilot program instead of the drone itself. I suspect it doesn't matter, but regardless, the output pdf file has no information about the modifications to the pilot program. It doesn't even say on the page that there is a pilot program.

Is this a Shadowrun structural thing, my knowledge thing, or a bug in the output in the Herolab software?

Regards

[Vytek]

Clothing - shouldn't come up with an error for adding modifications to it. I added Ruth Coating and it error saying 0/0 items can't have modifications.

It also gets angry when I try and equip the Bike Racing Helmet with the SecureTech Helmet. The SecureTech armor is designed to be added to other pieces of armor. The stacking of armor also seems a little wonky and I'm averaging slightly low -4 per ballistic / impact on ratings.

Earbuds w/ Audio Enhancement should only take up a single capacity and not the rating in capacity.

Variable Cyberlimb attributes dont seem to be working correctly. Running speed should take into account for my legs. Strength should account for my capacity rating. It dosn't seem to average correctly. I have a cyberlimb agility of 9 and its only reading as a 7 for dice on my weapons. Main hand is selected for both.

Reference:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KTX4FC4rl55QILGOfcnc9MTwApiqFbmqlOfLtNRUoxo/edit?hl=en_US%22

Try to build this fellow in the program. He does not come out right.

I cant create a custom program but NOT a custom OS. I want to set my own Firewall / System with a Custom OS.

No way to remove weapon mods that come with the weapon. Ingram smartgun X. id like to remove the gas vent 2 and place the 3 on there. i can do such but it looks like the capacity is effect.

The Battle Rifles are tossed into the Assault Rifle Category.

When I buy the Trigger Selector for my Ares HVBR it states that going FA is a downgrade from HV Full.

I have Automatics (SMGs) but my Automatics (Assault Rifle) is using that to grant me the +2 dice. It should not be such.

The capacity of some gun mods are off. I'll have to grab a book and go through it but several are incorrect.

I specifically bought this to use at Gencon for my group - and grabbed several of the add-on packs but all the little errors are bugging me mightily.

[Canis]

According to the description of Cyborg Adaption in Arsenal, a CCU has skillwires installed.... is this missing because it's not mentioned in Augmentation? The desription also states that the CCU has a capacity of 12 - I'm assuming you'd let the same mods in there as a cyberskull.

Also, how do you get the CCU Commlink to show up on the matrix tab?

Mechanical arms on vehicles don't show the same list of available modifications as cyberarms, yet they're basically the same thing (less restrictions on strength etc though).

[Mad Hamish]

Sorry mate, this is official. When SR4A was being proofed, the proofers went through all the language in the book to help prevent issues, however it was done so with the understanding that it complied with all official FAQ's. Including this one.

If you wish to house rule it, then by all means. But HL uses the official rules according to Catalyst.

o.k. Maybe it was their intent as a revision. I'm not convinced it's a good idea because it makes Mystic Adepts with most of their points in the Physical Adept power side crippled in terms of getting any benefit from spells at all.

However I still think that at the least it should be an option in Hero Lab to let it use the full magic for at least the level of adept powers allowed as the rulebook specifically says that they can. So a new player will buy the book, read it and try and then find out that the character creation tool won't let them do something that is specifically stated as being allowed in the main rulebook.

[LukeZ]

If you assign a Fake License/SIN under Social -> Identities it says that the maximum Rating is 0 (since it isn't loaded into any Commlink or similar).
How can I load the Fake License/SIN into my Commlink?

Edit:
Sorry I didn't thought it could have been a bug.

[Mathias]

According to the description of Cyborg Adaption in Arsenal, a CCU has skillwires installed.... is this missing because it's not mentioned in Augmentation?

It does not state that they have skillwires - it states that they count as skillwires. Activesofts will run on a cyborg as is.

[Canis]

Okay cool thanks Mathias.

However skillsofts don't work on Cyborgs for some reason. They show on the appropriate tab (active for Cyborg Activesofts, knowledge for Knowsofts and Linguasofts) but none of them have any skill ratings - it's as if I've added a bunch of skillsofts at rating 0.

[Canis]

o.k. Maybe it was their intent as a revision. I'm not convinced it's a good idea because it makes Mystic Adepts with most of their points in the Physical Adept power side crippled in terms of getting any benefit from spells at all.

That is kinda the point though, as Mystic Adepts are a half way house between being a Magician and an Adept - they're generalists and not specialists, and no generalist is ever gonna be as powerful in any one area as a specialist although given enough time, Karma and grades of initiation a mystic adept can become quite powerful indeed.

The FAQ entry is still present, so I'd have to assume that the original printing of SR4A was wrong. Apologies there, guess that one got missed. I'm sure CGL will include the FAQ in the latest printing, whenever that happens. All of the core books (Arsenal, Unwired, Augmentation and Street Magic) have recently been reprinted with cool new cover artwork so I'd not be surprised if SR4A itself will be - though they may have to change the title :o)

[Mathias]

Okay cool thanks Mathias.

However skillsofts don't work on Cyborgs for some reason. They show on the appropriate tab (active for Cyborg Activesofts, knowledge for Knowsofts and Linguasofts) but none of them have any skill ratings - it's as if I've added a bunch of skillsofts at rating 0.

What's running the skillsofts? What's its system rating? If you're running them on the commlink, you may want to wait and see if whatever's causing the commlink not to show up on the Matrix tab is also affecting other functions of the commlink, like being registered as a source of the Hot Sim ability (whcih affects whether it's a valid item to run skillsofts).

[Canis]

I can't get into that file now, it's become corrupt somehow - between saving it before lunch and opening it after lunch. All my other files seem okay.

I had them on the CCU Commlink. I've just made another cyborg and put a couple of them on that commlink adn it works okay. As HL is mixing ratings up still, I had to spread the knowsofts and linguasofts onto the skillwire expert system and a fairlight commlink in order to stop evetying from degrading due to processor load (delta ware with device rating 1....).

The fairlight I put on the character in order to give me something on the matrix tab to work with (kinda important for a borg). I'd planned to move everyting to the CCU Commlink once that was fixed.

I've just made another borg, and this one is working fine. Aside from system ratings (grrrrrr) causing them to show at lower ratings, cyborg activesofts, knowsofts and linguasofts are working okay on that one. Weird.

As an FYI, originally I upgraded every system and responce module to 10 (always came up as 3 though, see previous grrrr). All cyberware and the extra link I added.

[Mad Hamish]

No way to remove weapon mods that come with the weapon. Ingram smartgun X. id like to remove the gas vent 2 and place the 3 on there. i can do such but it looks like the capacity is effect.


The rules on gas vents in the core book say that they can't be removed once they're installed.

[Canis]

Clothing - shouldn't come up with an error for adding modifications to it. I added Ruth Coating and it error saying 0/0 items can't have modifications.

Firstly, ruthenium poncho's aren't legal any more - you have to have a full body armour suit to add ruthenium. And seeing as capacity is derrived from armour ratings I think that's right, though perhaps there's a small limit. Either way, you can't add ruthenium to it under SR4A rules.

It also gets angry when I try and equip the Bike Racing Helmet with the SecureTech Helmet. The SecureTech armor is designed to be added to other pieces of armor. The stacking of armor also seems a little wonky and I'm averaging slightly low -4 per ballistic / impact on ratings.

Erm yeah.... you can't wear two helmets. Look at the description, it clearly says the SecureTech PPP helmet is a football helmet or hockey helmet or whatever. You can only wear one helmet at a time (unless you've taken 40 BP on a second head custom metagenic quality :oP). I'm not sure what you mean with regards to armour ratings, but by all means please post a specific example so we can be sure. Stacking has been ammended in SR4A to make the rule clearer.

Variable Cyberlimb attributes dont seem to be working correctly. Running speed should take into account for my legs. Strength should account for my capacity rating. It dosn't seem to average correctly. I have a cyberlimb agility of 9 and its only reading as a 7 for dice on my weapons. Main hand is selected for both.

Yeah there is an issue with this, as it's not always 100% correct but mostly the averages in HL are correct. Weapon attacks typically use whole body agility - I know that seems wrong but it's to take into account it's not just your arm that has to react when you take a shot etc. Running speed and the like aren't affected by cyberlegs unless you have raptor legs. Speed is set per metatype. I'm not sure what you mean by 'capacity rating', could you be more specific.

I cant create a custom program but NOT a custom OS. I want to set my own Firewall / System with a Custom OS.

No need to create an OS specifically, Hero Lab treats System and Firewall like programs so just assign them youself instead of using one of the pre-generated OS programs.

No way to remove weapon mods that come with the weapon. Ingram smartgun X. id like to remove the gas vent 2 and place the 3 on there. i can do such but it looks like the capacity is effect.

As Mad Hamish pointed out, this isn't legal in SR4A.

The Battle Rifles are tossed into the Assault Rifle Category.

I'm assuming you mean for Specialisations of the Automatics skill? And yeah, you might have a point I'd have to look that up. Seems silly for the specialisation of your skill to change just because you're using a slightly bigger bullet, but I can't say as I don't have my copy of War! with me.

When I buy the Trigger Selector for my Ares HVBR it states that going FA is a downgrade from HV Full.

Yup, that's a rules bug. The HVBR is the first weapon with the High Velocity feature to not have FA as standard, and since having FA is a requirement for HV I'd expect CGL to rule on this one. Mechcanically when adding FA it should add 'FA(12)' but it doesn't.

I have Automatics (SMGs) but my Automatics (Assault Rifle) is using that to grant me the +2 dice. It should not be such.

You're right. Which weapon is it giving you the wrong dice pool benefit for? It's probably just set wrong in the data file. Have you tried it on other SMG and AR type weapons to make sure it's not just the one weapon with the glitch?

The capacity of some gun mods are off. I'll have to grab a book and go through it but several are incorrect.

Please do give us a list (and include page references and the book - including printing info). I've not spotted any incorrect weapon mods in months so if any are off we've all missed it for ages.

[Mad Hamish]

That is kinda the point though, as Mystic Adepts are a half way house between being a Magician and an Adept - they're generalists and not specialists, and no generalist is ever gonna be as powerful in any one area as a specialist although given enough time, Karma and grades of initiation a mystic adept can become quite powerful indeed.


I was thinking that the difference in dice in spellcasting was probably enough difference, I think I was wrong (1 magic vs 5 magic is only an effective difference of around 1 hit on average)
So the restriction on force may well be necessary to keep a pure magician ahead of the mystic adept.
I'm not sure that still doesn't mean that a 1/4 mana/physical adept is too ineffective as a starting character but then again you can build ineffective characters for any type of build in shadowrun.


The FAQ entry is still present, so I'd have to assume that the original printing of SR4A was wrong. Apologies there, guess that one got missed.


Mistakes happen and thanks for providing insight on the process.


I'm sure CGL will include the FAQ in the latest printing, whenever that happens. All of the core books (Arsenal, Unwired, Augmentation and Street Magic) have recently been reprinted with cool new cover artwork so I'd not be surprised if SR4A itself will be - though they may have to change the title :o)

My biggest complaint about Shadowrun now is the poor handling of errata and faqs. As I recall things it was handled better in the FASA days (although I played more Earthdawn back then than Shadowrun) and really people should be able to do better over the web now.

Saying that I've got no real idea of the size of the company and how much they've got available in resources to manage the process.

[Canis]

I was thinking that the difference in dice in spellcasting was probably enough difference, I think I was wrong (1 magic vs 5 magic is only an effective difference of around 1 hit on average)
So the restriction on force may well be necessary to keep a pure magician ahead of the mystic adept.
I'm not sure that still doesn't mean that a 1/4 mana/physical adept is too ineffective as a starting character but then again you can build ineffective characters for any type of build in shadowrun.

I've always found adepts of all kinda to be so hyper 1 dimensional as starting characters. Once they get some grades under their belts they're pretty darned tasty but I've never been able to make a starting character adept (normal or mystic) who wouldn't have his arse handed to him in any fight with a starting street sam. I've always chalked this down to the fact that cos magic is giving them such an edge their power curve is a lot slower initially. Put 100+ karma on an adept, and watch him roll most sams up! :o)

My biggest complaint about Shadowrun now is the poor handling of errata and faqs. As I recall things it was handled better in the FASA days (although I played more Earthdawn back then than Shadowrun) and really people should be able to do better over the web now.

Oh I feel you mate!!! However my major bugbear is that the spelling and general presentation has gone down hill. I know the other proofers have done a great job, but I'm starting to wonder if CGL is even incorporating some of the errors found into the final version. I am reading The Twilight Horizon at present, and I've just seen a drone with a single standard mount supposedly equipped with TWO miniguns!!!!

Saying that I've got no real idea of the size of the company and how much they've got available in resources to manage the process.

And that's the real rub. CGL is like 5 or 10 people and a whole heap of contractors who get assigned to chapters in books. Then it's a team of 10 volunteer proofers who generally get a one or two weeks to proof a chapter - rules mechanics, spelling, punctuation and even content are all checked.

Considering the amount of work CGL has to do, and that's just Shadowrun not to mention their other titles, I'm not surprised how things are. And also right now it's convention time so every month all the staff disappear for a week. Colen and Mathias know how that is I'm sure and CGL have it just as bad :o)

[Andrew]

Just designed a Mystic adept and took 'The Magicians Way' and the selected the Warriors way as the sub path.
I then selected 4 magic points of adept powers and increased reflexes and Increased ability (Archery) the cost of these two powers was not reduced to check I then took out the magicians way and added the Warriors way and it gave me the correct cost saving

[Canis]

What's running the skillsofts? What's its system rating? If you're running them on the commlink, you may want to wait and see if whatever's causing the commlink not to show up on the Matrix tab is also affecting other functions of the commlink, like being registered as a source of the Hot Sim ability (whcih affects whether it's a valid item to run skillsofts).

Okay I've found the problem. Everything was working fine, until I switched to VR Hot Sim. Now the skillsofts show as 0 rating, which seems a llittle odd but I know Hot Sim isn't working yet. However, I can't switch back to Real World as it's not an option for a cyborg.

[Mad Hamish]

I've always found adepts of all kinda to be so hyper 1 dimensional as starting characters. Once they get some grades under their belts they're pretty darned tasty but I've never been able to make a starting character adept (normal or mystic) who wouldn't have his arse handed to him in any fight with a starting street sam. I've always chalked this down to the fact that cos magic is giving them such an edge their power curve is a lot slower initially. Put 100+ karma on an adept, and watch him roll most sams up! :o)


I haven't actually tried to build one for combat yet.
The group I'm currently playing with might lose their main magic character and currently doesn't have a face so I've made a dryad mystic adept to try and cover both areas (6 magic, 5 points mana 1 point physical adept all on social abilities, results in reasonable spellcasting and 15-17 dice for social skills - apart from intimidation - without any buffing)
The impression I've always had for SR is that a Physical Adept was behind the cybered character as a starting character but given 'standard' karma and money got ahead long term.


Oh I feel you mate!!! However my major bugbear is that the spelling and general presentation has gone down hill. I know the other proofers have done a great job, but I'm starting to wonder if CGL is even incorporating some of the errors found into the final version. I am reading The Twilight Horizon at present, and I've just seen a drone with a single standard mount supposedly equipped with TWO miniguns!!!!


I've heard that they just had a bit of a disaster where they did a new version of one of the books and lost all of the errata for it because they'd replaced one of the staff members and the new guy used the wrong version of the documents...
Mistakes happen everywhere but Not a good look.

Anyway thanks again for the input and I'd better stop polluting the thread now.

[Vytek]

B&P MP9 - Its giving me an error for having a Foregrip (Which comes with the weapon). I also cannot add in a Rigid Stock to the gun.

Earbuds - Is capacity off on some things ? Or am I reading it wrong in the core book. Audio Enhancement 3 should be capacity 1 - but in HLlists it as 3.

The capacity ratings were errors on my part. I was selecting Mods, and not Accessory.

SecureTech PPP Helmet - In the description it says that the armor is designed to be combined with other pieces of armor (strapped on with the magic of Velcro!). Or worn as single piece sports equipment.

[_Pax_]

Earbuds - Is capacity off on some things ? Or am I reading it wrong in the core book. Audio Enhancement 3 should be capacity 1 - but in HLlists it as 3.
SR4A went back to "rating times 1" for the capacity cost of Audio enhancements. :(

SecureTech PPP Helmet - In the description it says that the armor is designed to be combined with other pieces of armor (strapped on with the magic of Velcro!). Or worn as single piece sports equipment.
Yeah, you're right. At first I thought "the guy must have missed something about the helmet" ... but, no, it's listed and treated like any of the other pieces, and the overall description says all of the PPP system is available in a "worn under other clothing" version, with no especial exception for the helmet mentioned.

[Canis]

Yeah, you're right. At first I thought "the guy must have missed something about the helmet" ... but, no, it's listed and treated like any of the other pieces, and the overall description says all of the PPP system is available in a "worn under other clothing" version, with no especial exception for the helmet mentioned.

*sigh* Unfortunately this wasn't explicitly said because no-one honestly thought you would need to say 'you can't wear two helmets'.

Vytek, what version of the main rulebook do you have? Sounds like you have SR4 and not SR4A.

[Canis]

Anti Tank ammo is a legal selection for Medium Machine Guns. This is due to HL lumping MMH and HMG ammo into the same group.

[_Pax_]

*sigh* Unfortunately this wasn't explicitly said because no-one honestly thought you would need to say 'you can't wear two helmets'.
... sloppy writing, then.

There's no reason, conceptually, why the discreet version of securetech "helmet" couldn't be an extra padded liner, underneath other headgear, for example.

[Canis]

Agreed.

[Jareth Valar]

edited because of communication error (other user had it settings wrong) Sorry

[Jareth Valar]

In KarmaGen, under the Pixie, when you click "Buy Off" for Uneducated in the Critter tab, it is not modifying the karma. Should be -40 karma.

[Vytek]

Missile Mastery isn't adding +DV value to Combat Axe (Thrown), Baseball/Billard, Brick/Paving Stone and to Missile Mastery (It should add the +1 to itself shouldn't it ?).

[Ryu]

Missile Mastery isn't adding +DV value to Combat Axe (Thrown), Baseball/Billard, Brick/Paving Stone and to Missile Mastery (It should add the +1 to itself shouldn't it ?).

This is a recently-discussed topic on DS. The above is right/wrong/a bit of both depending on rules interpretation. I would suggest to wait for an official answer before changing anything, or adding rules options to apply the Missile Mastery to a)everything thrown or b) the Throwing Weapons category sans grenades/explosives.

[Canis]

Anyone found the armour/claws for the Makwa Miskozi?

[_Pax_]

Reference error (SR4 to SR4A change)
The spell Intoxication refers you to page 155, SR4 for rules on Fatigue damage.

Those rules are currently found on page 164 of SR4A.

[JDDyslexia]

I'm pretty sure this is a bug, so correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm trying to add the Optimization program option to the AutoSoft Clearsight. Reading the rules on program options in Unwired, it seems like I should be able to do this. Can someone confirm this for me?

[Matt Droz]

The following summoned spirits still show in the Dashboard, even when the "show" button is unchecked on the main character page:

Guardian Spirits
Guidance Spirits
Plant Spirits
Task Spirits

[Canis]

I'm trying to add the Optimization program option to the AutoSoft Clearsight. Reading the rules on program options in Unwired, it seems like I should be able to do this. Can someone confirm this for me?

Autosofts can't accept program options.

[JDDyslexia]

Autosofts can't accept program options.

Where is this listed, then? I have the corrected third printing of Unwired, and the following is on page 114, the second paragraph under "Program Options":

Only Common Use (p. 232, SR4A), Hacking (p. 233, SR4A), Autosoft (p. 246, SR4A, and p. 112), and Simsense programs (including BTLs and skillsofts) may be equipped with program options.

Additionally, on page 115, it lists autosofts as valid for accepting the Optimization upgrade:

Optimization (Rating)
Program Types: Common, Hacking, Autosoft, Simsense

Is there some errata somewhere I haven't seen?

[Canis]

Is there some errata somewhere I haven't seen?

Alas no, not you it's us. Catalyst is very far behind with publishing their errata and FAQ's at present. Unles syou dig through their forums you'll never find any and even then CGL haven't dubbed any official.

So the new printings of the core rulebooks, such as your new third printing of Unwired, is more up to date than any other books. So until things like this occur - someone with the latest book try to do something and HL won't allow it - we don't know there's a problem.

I'd say this will be corrected relatively easy, but it's a bug :o)

[_Pax_]

Autosofts can't accept program options.

That's not correct. Unwired specifically indicates Autosofts as being able to accept the following Program Options:

Crashguard (Common, Hacking, Autosoft, Simsense)
Limitation (Common, Hacking, Autosoft, Simsense)
Optimization (Common, Hacking, Autosoft, Simsense)
Registration (Common, Hacking, Autosoft, Simsense)
Timer (Common, Hacking, Autosoft, Simsense)
Viral Resistance (Common, Hacking, Autosoft, Simsense)


Source: Unwired, current PDF version, pp 114-116. Screenshots can be supplied upon request. :cool:

[Canis]

It's cool Pax, there's been changed to Unwired and they now mean Hero Lab isn't correct any more.

There may well be a LOT of these out there, and until someone runs across them in this manner we'll never know cos CGL is so far behind on Errata. They haven't even produced a delta to allow people to incorporate the changes into older printings.

[_Pax_]

"Behind" isn't the word, Canis. :)

"Pathologically averse" is probably more accurate.

As for updates, that's why I prefer to buy PDFs directly from the BattleShop. I just get a new download link, and whoosh, updated "printing". :)

[Canis]

Yeah I'm seriously considering getting the PDFs as well as print....

And hopefully once the con season is over CGL will sort this out as it is very poor. I'm not even sure they're ammending errors found by the proofers.

CGL seem to get like this around con season. Actually that's not fair, all small companies get like this around con season.

[_Pax_]

It's not just con season, Canis. There's errata-worthy errors that are over a year old, that still haven't been addressed. Catalyst hasn't issued an actual errata file in ... I think it's two years, now.

Like I said, "pathologically averse".

[JDDyslexia]

Ok, I've got another one, I think.

I've made a Vampire (Human HMHVV), and it's giving it a vulnerability to silver. I don't see this listed in SR420thA or Runner's Companion as a trait for Vampires.

[MSMurphy]

Lifestyle quality 'Well Made'; Runner's Companion pg 162-Positive quality should be +1, Hero Labs has it as +2

[Jareth Valar]

OK, maybe I missed where it's mentioned somewhere, but when I reduce the attributes to the base 1, all the races end up being free. Should be =to BP.

If it mentioned somewhere, I didn't see it and sorry to re-mention.

[Mad Hamish]

OK, maybe I missed where it's mentioned somewhere, but when I reduce the attributes to the base 1, all the races end up being free. Should be =to BP.

If it mentioned somewhere, I didn't see it and sorry to re-mention.

If that's in karmagen it's been reported before, if it's in BP then I suspect you'll need to give more explanation because I can't reproduce it.

[Jareth Valar]

KarmaGen.

Did a search for it before I posted, but...I must have glitched my roll. :o

Thanks

[Mara]

On a Cybertorso, I give the torso "Enhanced armor +2" This does not show up
in the armor tab, nor does it effect my soak value in any way. I went and
added 1 point of armour to all other limbs, and still no effect.

[dracon]

I made a cyberzombie and had a validation error even though by the book it was legal.
Magic: This value exceeds it's maximum.

Cyberzombies have a magic score of 1 but the program makes it zero because normal characters magic is reduced by cyberware. Dual Nature, Augmentation p157

Another thing with the same character was the hardened armor. It is giving the armor but not calculating it. In armor calculations it shows Immunity to normal weapons (+0) but it should be a positive number twice the negative essence. In this case I had a -2 essence. Unnatural Vigor, Augmentation p158.

The Ability maximum increases from the negative essence are being figured correctly.

[Mad Hamish]

If I add Sasobonsam to my elf then on my laptop (screen resolution 1366 x 768) I don't get the Ranged Defense or Melee Defense entries showing at the top of the screen in Creation Mode and the Advancement Mode still misses Melee Defense.
If the dashboard is turned off it does have enough room to show.

[Death_Jester]

First off, love all the HL datafiles and the program in general. Thanks a ton for all the work you guys do!

The following all appear to be gear related bugs/missing bits:

M-41A1 Carbine with powered slide mount
- Missing Powered Slide Mount in modifications subsection. Option still available to buy.

Ogre Hammer SWS
- Missing Weapon Commlink
-
Missing modification options from assault cannons:
- Barrel Extension
- Barrel Reduction
- Electronic Firing
- Fire Selection Change (All)
- Gecko Grip
- Heavy Barrel
- High Velocity
- Pilot Upgrade
- Propulsion System (may be due to Pilot)
- Underbarrel Weapon

Missing Accessories from all weapons:
- Underbarrel Flamethrower

Missing Modification options from all weapons:
- Underbarrel weapon
- Pilot Upgrade
- Propulsion System (may be due to Pilot)


If some of these options are - in fact - available, then how to enable them isn't readily apparent. I double checked through the Assault Cannon entries to find out if there is any commonality or rules restriction behind the missing entries, but I was unable to find one.

[_Pax_]

Ogre Hammer SWS
- Missing Weapon Commlink
-
Actually, no it's not. It just doesn't mention it on the actual gun, but ... well, start a new Profile. Add an Ogre SWS. Then go look at the Matrix tab. Hey look at that, an entry for "Ares Ultra Four Integrated Commlink". :)

I agree that there should be a "Weapon Commlink (See Matrix Tab)" entry on the gun itself to avoid confusion, though.

[Canis]

- Pilot Upgrade
- Propulsion System (may be due to Pilot)


Like with the commlink thing, if you look under the vehicles you'll see that there's options to add the different motive systems - and that allows you to add a Pilot.

[Death_Jester]

Like with the commlink thing, if you look under the vehicles you'll see that there's options to add the different motive systems - and that allows you to add a Pilot.

Now that you mention it, I'd found this before a while back and had forgotten all about it. It is a very confusing mechanic. Having a dead link in the weapons section telling people to go here would be very helpful. The comment about the commlink I agree with, about having an entry saying to look at the matrix tab. Since weapon commlink is an accessory and you're not supposed to be able to take multiples of the same thing whether it is a modification or accessory, it should probably still show up on the gun I would think. There is an argument for weapon commlink and integrated commlink not being the same thing, but that seems like a bad argument.

The drone/pilot thing was a fairly minor bug for what I was trying to do. All the other weapon options I listed missing from assault cannons seems like a bug though. That was the part I was more interested in.

[crowofpyke]

The spell NAPALM has the description of the spell FIREWATER.

[Death_Jester]

B&P MP9 Machine Pistol comes up with an error for having a Foregrip. The MP9 has a foregrip as standard. Normally pistols can't have them, which is why it is probably getting an error.

[Death_Jester]

Military Helmet from Arsenal pg. 51 is missing its standard modifications and the integral commlink is coming up in the gear section rather than the matrix section. It is also showing up with a device rating of 7 for some reason, but no matrix (response, signal, etc.) stats. The missing modifications are camera, flare compensation, image link, and smartlink. Those options still show up on the modifications list with no entry saying they are already installed (which they should be).

[Connarius]

Good day.

I encountered a problem with adding spare clips. Used the BP method for the characters.

This was my way: I bought an Ares Predator IV and hit Icon 'Edit the weapon'
- Accessoires. Choosed a Silencer, and 3 spare clips.
The entries shown were:

Silencer
(3x) Spare Clips

Exported as PDF:

Silencer
Spare Clips


A possible solution I found for this case .. is hitting the text with right mouse click to edit the entry, typing '(3x) Spare Clips' into the field. Same works for Fake SINs & Licenses which dont show up their rankings, too

Then it appears at the PDF-files.

Thats .. odd :D Thought the amount/rankings should be visible after buying/choosing?!

[cryptoknight]

Did you put bullets in the clips or are they empty?

[_Pax_]

Spare clips in HL are not containers.

[_Pax_]

BUG; Lonestar iBall - missing standard modification

According to Arsenal, the Lonestar iBall has "Limited Maneuverability" as a standard modification, along with 4 extra modification slots.

HeroLab is giving the bonus slots, but, is not applying Limited maneuverability. That mod is in the list, and does work right when added (except, that the price goes up by 100, and the number of available slots goes up by 4 again).

[Death_Jester]

Agents and Pilots are being improperly allowed to add program options in excess of their limits. Examples include the Ergonomic and Optimization program options. I was able to load 3 rating 5 programs on a Pilot 2 agent using ergonomics and optimization 3 on each one with no validation errors. I should have only been able to run 2 programs with ergonomics at maximum of 4 rating.

Agents and Pilots (and their software) are also not showing up on the devices they are running through. I had this particular agent running alongside a much larger one as well as some programs running ergonomics in a very poor commlink and it showed 0 programs running.

The Iris Antivirus software package is incorrectly running the whole package instead of the individual programs. You are not able to individually unload the programs in the package like you are with all the other packages, so both programs in the package are counting against the processor limit.

[Mad Hamish]

I've got a character with 5 gymnastics and 7 reaction, if I add a synthacardium 3 it still only has 12 for ranged full defense

[_Pax_]

I've got a character with 5 gymnastics and 7 reaction, if I add a synthacardium 3 it still only has 12 for ranged full defense
That's not a bug; it's how the game actually works.

Synthacardium adds it's rating as bonus dice to Athletics Tests. Ranged Defense, full or otherwise, is not an Athletics Test. Not even when the skill used to calculate your die pool is an Athletics-group skill.

[Lu-tze]

Built a Vampire character with a 6 in Intuition, Hawk Eye and lvl 1 Perception.
My Perception rolls are defaulting at 5 even after deleting and re-adding the qualities...

Am I missing something?

[Lu-tze]

Perception skill roll is defaulting to 5 on a Vampire character with Intuition of 6, Hawk Eye and Perceptive lvl1

[crowofpyke]

IMPROVED PHYSICAL ATTRIBUTE adept power

--If you choose BODY as the attribute you are improving, the amount of ENCUMBRANCE you can have on the ARMOR tab does not improve.

[_Pax_]

I can confirm CrowOfPyke's report; start a new profile, set the character to Adept, increase Body to 4 and Magic to 2+. Go to Magic tab, select Improved Physical Attribute, set it to 2.

Body is now 4/6.

Armor encumbrance still says "0/8".

[JmOz]

Softweave is not calculating right. I can't even tell how it is calculating, I was told by one person it was applying to both sides. However my test (Conducted on Str 1, Body 2 with 6/4 armor) still was at -0. Like I said not sure how it is calculating this...

[_Pax_]

Softweave is not calculating right. I can't even tell how it is calculating, I was told by one person it was applying to both sides. However my test (Conducted on Str 1, Body 2 with 6/4 armor) still was at -0. Like I said not sure how it is calculating this...

To expand on this: I started a new portfolio, set Body to 2 and Strength to 1.

Armor Vest (6/4) plain: encumbrance 6 of 4, -1 malus.
Armor Vest (6/4) with Softweave: Encumbrance 4 of 4, -0 malus.

An Armor Jacket (6/4) with Softweave worn by a Strength 1 character, should encumber it's wearer as if it were (5/3). With Body 4, that's still encumbered and shuld be a -1 malus.

Changing strength to 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6 had no effect.

I then set strength to 4, and tried a different outfit:

Chain Shirt (2/7) plain: encumbrance 7 of 4, -2 malus.
Chain Shirt (2/7) with Softweave: encumbrance 5 of 4, -1 malus.

A Chain Shirt (2/7) worn by a Strength 4 character should encumber it's wearer as if it were 2/3. With body 4, that should be a -0 malus.

Clearly, HL is simply applying a 2-point easement to encumbrance, regardless of strength.

But wait, it gets worse!!

I took the same Body 2 portfolio, and added an "Industrious Jumpsuit" (6/6). Without Softweave, predictably, a -1 malus appeared because encumbrance was still 6 of 4.

Addint YNT softweave should not have changed this - it should reduce ONE rating for encumbrance purposes, but not both. However, in HL ... Encumbrance is lowered to 4 of 4, and the malus becomes -0.

So not only is HeroLab using a flat modifier, it's applying the reduction to both ratings. This is not how the rules describe Softweave. It's not even close. :mad:

[dusttraveller]

Currently, with 2.18 installed, using BP character creation, Negative Qualities are costing BP, and Positive Qualities are giving BP back. As this seems like a pretty noticable and crazy bug for no one to be commenting on it, I wanted to make sure that I'm not just doing something wrong here.

It seems to be affecting all Qualities, although I didn't check every single one.

[Almos]

Bug Fixes: "Under the Karma system, the Enemy quality was costing double what it should, and imposing an incorrect limit on the amount of karma spent."

Unfortunately this fix affected the Build Point system so that the Enemy quality now grants half of what it should.

[Andrew]

Way of the Totem does not seem to be working properly. The subsidiary way (i.e. Way of the Warrior) does not seem to be reducing the cost of adept abilities . I confirmed this by switching way of the Totem for any other way of the ***** and then do get the cost reduction

[cryptoknight]

Currently, with 2.18 installed, using BP character creation, Negative Qualities are costing BP, and Positive Qualities are giving BP back. As this seems like a pretty noticable and crazy bug for no one to be commenting on it, I wanted to make sure that I'm not just doing something wrong here.

It seems to be affecting all Qualities, although I didn't check every single one.

Doesn't seem to be the case for me.

Make a brand new character (by default 80 BP spent because HL defaults everything to 2).
Added Albinism BP spent 70/400

Added Ambidextrous BP spent 75/400

[JDDyslexia]

Bug Fixes: "Under the Karma system, the Enemy quality was costing double what it should, and imposing an incorrect limit on the amount of karma spent."

Unfortunately this fix affected the Build Point system so that the Enemy quality now grants half of what it should.

First post on Page 3. Search the thread to see if the bug is already reported before posting. :)

[JDDyslexia]

Magical Initiation

Page 50 of Street Magic shows the costs of initiation. When you select one (or both) of the options to reduce the Karma cost by 20%, the book specifically says "Round Up". Hero Lab is rounding down.

[Mad Hamish]

The latest pdf of Augmentation does not have separate essence holes for cyberware & bioware (on page 128)

[betterwatchit]

I've found that you haven't errata'd the Chatty Positive Quality.

It costs 10 BP instead of 5, as per the Unwired Errata. (http://www.shadowrun4.com/wp-content/uploads/Downloads/unwired_errata_v1.pdf) (Link leads to the Unwired Errata PDF on the Shadowrun website.)

[JDDyslexia]

The latest pdf of Augmentation does not have separate essence holes for cyberware & bioware (on page 128)

I'm not sure what you are getting at. Are you saying Hero Lab isn't filling that Cyber/Bioware hole when you upgrade/replace?

[Mathias]

Unless the essence holes specify whether they were bioware or cyberware holes, here's a situation that can result:

A character has 4 essence of bioware and 3 essence of cyber (halved, subtracting 1.5 from the essence attribute) = essence 0.5.

That character removes 2 essence worth of bioware, leaving 2 points of essence hole + 3 essence of cyber + 2 essence of bioware (halved, subtracting 1 from the essence attribute) = essence 0 = dead.

[JDDyslexia]

Oh, ok. I get it.

Did the older version of Augmentation treat the essence holes separately?

[Mathias]

I think they've always been vague about essence holes - it doesn't say they are separated, it doesn't say they aren't separated.

[RavenX]

Cyber/bioware both replace parts of the character's body. I think part of the reason they're being vague with it is that if a character loses some of these things, they can die of system shock as Mathais pointed out, Essence 0 being death.

I believe it was left vague with that in mind, but perhaps we should ask Catalyst this question?

[Lu-tze]

Built an Infected Vampire (cliche, I know).
Skills of:
B 5
A 6
R 5/7(wired reflexes)
S 5
C 3
I 6
L 3
W 3

Took Perceptive and Hawk Eye Qualities and Perception is Defaulting at 5

[Ryu]

Create Magician without Implants->Finalize->Implant Aug->Increase Magic Back to original value.

The cost is calculated from the pre-implant magic rating, but should be calculated from current magic. (IIRC SR3 handled that differently.)

IE
Magic 4 max. 6
Install Trauma Damper - Magic 3 max. 5 Ess 5.8
Increase Magic to 4 for 20 karma (current HL price 25 for Magic 5(4))

[hyulf]

When adding Knowledge or Language skills to an NPC in Shadowrun, I click once, and then it goes red saying I have overspent.

So if the NPC had 15 Knowledge skill points, I click to add Japanese and it immediately says overspent.

[JDDyslexia]

Create Magician without Implants->Finalize->Implant Aug->Increase Magic Back to original value.

The cost is calculated from the pre-implant magic rating, but should be calculated from current magic. (IIRC SR3 handled that differently.)

IE
Magic 4 max. 6
Install Trauma Damper - Magic 3 max. 5 Ess 5.8
Increase Magic to 4 for 20 karma (current HL price 25 for Magic 5(4))

Just to contribute to this issue (because I just spent a good chunk of time scouring my PDFs and the SR4 forums), yes this is indeed technically a bug. Having the reduced essence doesn't "surpress" that point of Magic, you actually lose it (so, if you were to get rid of the implant and use gene therapy to get your essence back, you won't get the Magic point back.

Based on those rules alone, it makes sense that buying your Magic back up should cost the new attribute rating x 5, and not the higher value assuming a "surpressed" point of Magic.

[JDDyslexia]

Any updates on when to expect a new release to patch some of the known bugs?

[Mad Hamish]

Lu-tze, the wording on defaulting is
"Characters who default use only the linked attribute in their dice
pool. Additionally, they suffer a –1 dice pool modifier."


So I can see 3 different things that might be factors
1) the definition of defaulting might be being read as dice modifiers not applying
(not a ruling I'd be happy with myself, although I accept that if it added a skill ranking point it wouldn't work (pg68 & pg 118 iirc))
2) Hawkeye only applies for a specific case so it may not be being applied, perception should still work though. (Checking the code for Hawkeye it does look like the code only implements the range modification)
3) it's just a general bug

[Mathias]

Built an Infected Vampire (cliche, I know).
Skills of:
B 5
A 6
R 5/7(wired reflexes)
S 5
C 3
I 6
L 3
W 3

Took Perceptive and Hawk Eye Qualities and Perception is Defaulting at 5

Lu-tze, the wording on defaulting is
"Characters who default use only the linked attribute in their dice
pool. Additionally, they suffer a –1 dice pool modifier."


So I can see 3 different things that might be factors
1) the definition of defaulting might be being read as dice modifiers not applying
(not a ruling I'd be happy with myself, although I accept that if it added a skill ranking point it wouldn't work (pg68 & pg 118 iirc))
2) Hawkeye only applies for a specific case so it may not be being applied, perception should still work though. (Checking the code for Hawkeye it does look like the code only implements the range modification)
3) it's just a general bug

In order to properly apply bonuses to a skill, the skill needs to be added to the skill tab - otherwise, Hero Lab has nowhere to store those bonuses. Without a perception skill on the skill tab, the display along the top of the character does a quick back-of-the-envelope calculation of the default value and comes up with Int-1.

Although skills are added at rating 1 by default, you can drop them to rating 0 after adding them, and it will show you the default roll for that skill. The rating 0 skills can get dicepool modifiers, though, and those modifiers will be reflected along the top of the character.

Oh, and Hawk Eye only applies in some circumstances, so its bonus isn't automatically incorporated into the Perception dicepool - it's up to the user to decide whether that applies or not.

[Wyldstar]

I've found a problem with free spirits and initiating.

When a free spirit buys a level of initiation they should be able to use a point for metamagic or use it as a point for free spirit powers. If I take the metamagic power it is counting it as a free spirit power, and flagging the purchase as being over the limit.

[Colen]

This thread is now closed. Please use our new Shadowrun bug reporting mechanism instead:

http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=24975