Racial Ability that allows a choice of several abilities

[tatteredking]

Working on the Sundered Skies files, and am a little stuck as to how to code the Elves. They get Plant Heritage as a racial ability. Plant Heritage is actually 8 separate abilities, that the elf gets to select one of. I wandered over to the Pathfinder files to see how it was handled in there (for things like Shifters, who have a choice of several backgrounds). Taking a look at hour Shifting was coded, a Field was added

Field ID: usrCandid1 Value:thingid.raSTbeasth|thingid.raSTcliffw| thingid.raSTdreams|thingid.raSTgorebu|thingid.raST longst|thingid.raSTlongto|thingid.raSTrazorc|thing id.raSTswiftw|thingid.raSTtruedi|thingid.raSTwildh u

Taking that idea, I applied it to my 8 Plant Heritage abilities. When I compiled, I got an error saying usrCandid1 wasn't defined.

1) am I on the right track for how to handle this in the Savage Worlds setting?
2) where and how should I define the usrCandid1 Field?

Thanks in advance

[rob]

The Pathfinder and Savage Worlds data files are VASTLY different, so I'm afraid knowledge about the Pathfinder files will rarely translate directly over to Savage Worlds. This specific situation is one that was completely skipped for Savage Worlds in an effort to avoid a lot of complexity in writing the data files.

When we first added support for SW, there were a handful of settings and exactly one race that offered a choice. That was the Half Elves, and they had two choices. So the solution we implemented simply had two separate versions for Half Elf, with the user choosing the appropriate version.

Generalizing things to support the Elves in Sundered Skies will entail some fundamental rework of the SW data files to properly accommodate. My best guess is that it would be the better part of a day to implement a good solution and properly test it. Between now and GenCon, we're already in a huge crunch, so I don't see the necessary rework happening quickly. I'll talk to Colen to see if he has any ideas on how to solve this more efficiently than I'm envisioning.

[tatteredking]

Hey rob, thanks for the feedback. I understand that it isn't a priority with Gen Con coming up. Just want to get it on the list of nice things to have.

It's not just Elves in SS this is applicable to though. Wildlings are the same way. Many of the newer settings, the Miracles Edge restricts your Powers choices by what deity you worship. Some of the settings have Edges restricted by deities or homelands.

I don't understand the fundamental coding of the background files or I would take a stab at it myself.

[CapedCrusader]

I was wondering how to log a deity for a character myself. Hellfrost has a whole series of Edges that are deity-specific, one for each of about 25 different deities, with more in the expansions. I can't see any way to add this as a piece of information. It's by no means a top priority, but it would be a nice addition.

FYI - I've been a programmer for a long time (20 years working with Oracle, COBOL for 6 years before that) and I've done a lot of other programming on a non-professional basis. What's this actually written in? If you point me in the right direction, I might be able to figure it out if you folks are too busy with other things. I'm unemployed at the moment, so I have some free time on my hands...

[tatteredking]

Hey Ron,

we could potentially use Factions to specify deities. The one question I have is, does the software allow you to take more than one Faction....say one dictating your spiritual beliefs and one dictating your professional affiliations?

[CapedCrusader]

I thought of that, but I don't know where you'd identify the faction on the character. I don't see a faction field anywhere, even after I've added a couple of test faction items.

[tatteredking]

Right at the top, there is a dropdown box for "Select Cabal". I just checked it out and it only allows one selection. So it doesn't support being a Priest of Festival AND a Boughbreaker, for example. Now perhaps if we had another box like that for Deity or Spiritual Belief. I think the wiki may tell how to create the Faction dropdown in Hero Lab, and the faction tab in the Editor.

Ah, but you may not have it turned on for your datafiles.

Check this out.

http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=9946&highlight=faction

[CapedCrusader]

No, I didn't have that enabled before. I'd forgotten about the fact that it required enabling. Good catch! I'll try it out and let you know.

[rob]

I was wondering how to log a deity for a character myself. Hellfrost has a whole series of Edges that are deity-specific, one for each of about 25 different deities, with more in the expansions. I can't see any way to add this as a piece of information. It's by no means a top priority, but it would be a nice addition.

The Factions mechanism already suggested was added specifically for situations like this.

What's this actually written in?

It's a bastardization of Basic, Pascal, and something completely custom for accessing/manipulating HL's data objects. So there's no official language that this derives from. We needed something that supported logic and behaviors in a very non-standard framework, so we came up with something that we hoped would be effective in defining the desired operations while also being reasonably straightforward for users to get comfortable with. In hindsight, we were moderately successful, although there are definitely some aspects that could have been handled better.

[CapedCrusader]

Your own home-grown programming language? Impressive.

[tatteredking]

has a work around for this been figured out?

[CapedCrusader]

Not a work-around, but it's one of the things I've added. The new version will support two factions.

[tatteredking]

:)

I'm not referring to the two factions issue. I know you have that under control.

I was referring to my original post here about how to set up a racial ability that has several options. Wildlings and Elves in Sundered Skies, both have Racial Abilities that allow them to select one of many different Racial Abilities. The way I have it set up now is to have one race for each individual Racial Ability. I see it as kind of clunky. I'd like to see it where I could have one Wildling race and one Elf race, each one with the same Racial Ability, but have the Racial Ability offer a choice of several racial abilities to select. I don't believe it can currently be done. It's not really a faction, especially since the Elves can take Edges to select additional heritages.

[CapedCrusader]

I don't know on this one. Generally, making selections to build a Race is the province of the GM and is handled in the editor. If we open up the selection of Racial Abilities at the user level, it opens up a whole can of worms. I ran into the same issue with Elves where there are two different heritages to choose from.

[tatteredking]

well those are two distinctly different races. What I am talking about is one race, with one racial ability that allows the choice of several different options.

For now I have them all as separate daces. It just seems cumbersome.

[Titanhoss]

Have you considered instead of making a ton of elf races, make the handfull of edges (onef or each plant heritage) and giving elfs a selection of 1 of those dges?

Titanhoss

[tatteredking]

hmm, not a bad idea titanhoss...

[Titanhoss]

Sort of like Fighter bonus feats in 3.5/Pathfinder

[tatteredking]

just have to figure out how to do that for Savage Worlds

[tatteredking]

OK So I took this suggestion...created a feat for each Plant Heritage for the elf. Created a new elf, to try it out. Gave them the free bonus feat ability and an Expr-Req that they needed one of the Plant Heritage edges.

In short it worked.

But the issue I see is, 1) the race came up greyed out, as you don't meet the criteria....you don't have the edge yet. 2) When you go to select the bonus Edge, all the edges you are eligible to take come up.

I'm not sure if there is a way around this.

[Titanhoss]

I think the problem you may be having is having the edge see if you qualify for the race... what it needs to be is having the race qualify you for the edge...

Titanhoss

[tatteredking]

yes but I need the race to have a qualification that you need one of the heritage feats...I am sure there is a way to do it..

[CapedCrusader]

The solution might be to set up an evalrule on the Race to generate just a warning when the Heritage feat isn't taken. Then the Race shouldn't be greyed out, and there would still be a notification on the validation report.

[rob]

There's also a significantly better approach that will require we make some internal changes so that it becomes possible. We still need to assess how difficult it will be to make those changes, not to mention whether the changes will completely work. So CapedCrusader's suggestion above is probably the best solution for the time being, and we'll keep everyone posted on whether we get a better solution into place.

[tatteredking]

that would prlly work CC. I just have to dig back through the recesses of my mind to figure out how to to it without listing each edge specifically.

[Titanhoss]

Well, to clarify what I was thinking so it comes across better.
For the race elf, give them a bonus edge of type X... set up type X edges as being the different plant heritage choices... (similar to if they were to be given a bonus Arcane Background edge, or Weird edge etc) then when you chose elf, the bonus edge should grey out any choices but type X. Standard validation for edges would flag the race as still having to choose an edge of type X if one isn't chosen (just like on creation it tells you if you still have an edge to choose)


Hope that helps,

Titanhoss

[tatteredking]

For the race elf, give them a bonus edge of type X...
Titanhoss

this is precisely what i can't remember how to do

[CapedCrusader]

It just got easier, King. Rob came up with an elegant solution, and we're including it in this release.

It allows you to create a race that will activate the faction (or group) chooser and populate it with a custom set of Factions that you can attach the Edges to.

So, as long as you aren't already using both Group and Factions in the campaign (one must be available for use) you can use this.

When the Race is selected, the Faction window pops up and lets them choose which one they want to belong to. And that will bootstrap the Edge you want.

[tatteredking]

OK, so, as I have the Sundered Skies files written so that the Faction field is used for your deity, and dictates what powers are available from your deity, is there another field for deity now? I know we had discussed two faction fields...one for deity and one for a faction. Or can you take two factions?

One way or another I'll have to do some overhauling of the files.

I guess it could be overlooked if you could take more than one Faction....but as it is....SUndered Skies has different Gods...which I have dictated using Factions....Different Factions....which open up new Edges when you join them....and then the different racial heritages for Elves and Wildlings.

[CapedCrusader]

There are Groups now, which are basically a clone of Factions. It allows another set of affiliations to be stored for a character. Check out the Setting Adjustments to enable them, and you can add Groups in the Editor.