CtL: Dual Kith (Different Seeming)

[Kairos]

Hi, everyone:

I noticed today that when you choose this merit, your option in the Changeling tab is still limited to choosing your dual kith from the same seeming as the first. Is this a bug, or am I doing something wrong?

Thanks for any advice!:)

k

[rob]

According to the definition of "kith" on page 17 in the core rulebook...

"kith: A sub-category of seeming, representing more specific affinities such as the various elements or animals."

This implies to me that all kiths are subject to the seeming of the Changeling. In addition, all dual kith examples given in the book adhere to this interpretation.

[Lawful_g]

I had a liberal storyteller who allowed dual kiths from different seemings. I thought it was mentioned in the text of the Dual Kith merit, but I don't have access to the book at the moment.

[rob]

There's a blurb about it in the book, where the section begins...

"Another particularly permissive experiment might be to open up any kith to any seeming."

They then go on to outline all the potential drawbacks of doing this. As with anything else in RPGs, what the GM says is law for his/her game. The issue here is that Hero Lab needs to draw the line somewhere, and the folks at White Wolf concurred that the approach we've taken was appropriate during their approvals process.

If you want to step outside this practical limitation, it's easy to go into the Editor, create a copy of the kith you want to use, and assign it to the desired seeming. Then select it for the character and you're good to go.

[Lawful_g]

Fair enough. That game is over now though, so I will leave it to another.

[Kairos]

There is an official albeit optional rule for this in Winter Masques (p98), which is where I thought the merit in HL came from.

What's got me confused is the presence of the Dual Kith (Different Seeming) merit in HL, but the inability to choose a kith from a different Seeming. :)

PS -- Excellent program, BTW. I never leave home without it. (Quite literally -- I run it on my netbook -- it totally makes MM2E-3E a viable system on a work-and-family level of free time)

[rob]

I finally got a chance to investigate this further. The issue is purely with the display during kith selection.

If you select the "Dual Kith (Same Seeming)" merit, the "Dual Kith" chooser becomes enabled on the Changeling tab. When you select the kith, only the valid kiths for the seeming as made available.

If you select the "Dual Kith (Different Seeming)" merit, the "Dual Kith" chooser also become enabled. However, when you select the kith, ALL kiths are displayed. Kiths for other seemings are greyed out in the list and display the "Invalid kith for seeming" message. But that does NOT stop you from selecting them. In fact, if an "invalid" kith is actually selected for the dual kith, NO validation error is reported for the character.

So everything is behaving correctly, except that the other kiths are displaying that they are invalid when shown for selection. They are checking themselves against the primary kith and warning you accordingly. This display error can be easily ignored until it gets officially fixed. Simply select the kith you want from the complete list shown. No validation error is reported once the kith is added.