Druid Wildshape Templates

[dragonladytoo]

So in the Editor, it seems that templates is the best place to work on the various changes (as a group) for sizes of wildshape (+NA, +/- Str, +/- Dex, +/- size, etc).

But I don't see how to apply the template from within Herolab. (I know the editor works because I created gauntlets of dex (from the Runelord Pathfinder module) no problem and I could use it with no problem.

How do I activate the template I created?

Once I get this to work then I will be able to do Beast I/II/II/IV and Elemental I/II/II easily for my wildshape ability.

Did someone find an easier way to do this?

Thanks
Robyn

[kunger00]

you add templates the same way you add a character class.

[dragonladytoo]

you add templates the same way you add a character class.

Could you expand on this please? What tab do you goto? Classes?

Is there a button that is pressed?

[kunger00]

When in your character portfolio, go to the CLASSES tab (should be the very first tab)

Then click on the area right under where it lists your classes. It will probably say something like "Next level: 2 (2000 XP to go)"

Or something like that. It is the same location you click when you are leveling up a character and need to select which class to level up in.

Click that location and it brings up the menu for classes. Scroll down and you will find prestige classes, then npc classes, then templates.

Hope that helps some more.

[kunger00]

there isn't a button, by the way... just click the words. Sometimes the area has a dashed line box around it but not always. Just click on the words "Next Level:"

[Thazar]

I have been thinking about a way to set this up. And rather then doing a template I was thinking of trying to set it up as a condition. Then you just check the box next to the correct druid form to give the various +/- to STR, DEX, AC. You could then create custom weapons and call them things like Tiger Claw and Tiger Bite and Rake. I am not sure how you would work the other stuff like grab and the like.

[dragonladytoo]

there isn't a button, by the way... just click the words. Sometimes the area has a dashed line box around it but not always. Just click on the words "Next Level:"

Yes!!! That was it!!!


It works!!!

Woohoo!

Thanks!

[dragonladytoo]

ok, that takes care of ability statistic additions.

Now I am fighting the addition of natural weapons. They are listed (I'm an using Elephant as an example). Gore, Slam, Trample are all on the list. But I'm having trouble duplicating the damage
Gore is 2d8 plus str.
2d8 isn't on the list for damage (or when I choose it when I go and look at it it come up as 4d6 or 4d8 (depending on which of the 2 options for 2d8 I choose in the menu).
Argh.

It seems to be doing a convertion from whatever I request to another table.
If it was following standard Pathfinder rules for conversion from a medium weapon to a large weapon (Page 145 - Core book), then I would be able to use 1d10 and 1d8 to get 2d8 and 2d6. But instead I am getting 3d8 and 3d6.

Is this a bug?

[dragonladytoo]

Just in case I tried looking at the table conversion from tiny to large (its close) but its not per the Page 145 conversion table either.
Definately a bug.

[dragonladytoo]

The problem is Herolab is doing its conversion from the Tiny creature column to the other, rather than doing its conversion from Medium to Tiny or Large. Because of this they are squeezing the table down, and missing out on some weapon values (like 2d8).

This is definately a programming issue rather than "bug" per say.
Since the programming group is gone for the weekend, I guess there won't be any quick answers on this <sigh>.

So there is a reason, just not a justification and that means that many damage charts are wrong on Huge or Collosal creatures. I wonder how they worked around this for the Bestiary!

?

[Halma]

First off just want to say I really love this program. I especially like how verssital it is for a whole bunch of game systems (most of which I play quite often).

Playing around with the builder for Pathfinder and came accross a question about Wild shape. Is there a way to have your character wild shape to show the new form in HL? Am I just missing how to change your character to the new shape?


thanks for the help and really looking forward in putting this program to use.

[dragonladytoo]

By the way, I wanted to share the templates that I build for Herolab (they seem to work well for me and are easy to apply.

http://tinyurl.com/32dfm4j

I posted them in my google docs account.

Robyn

[blzbob]

This may be a stupid question, but now that I have added this file, where do I find the various forms I can shape into? I can't seem to find them anywhere.

[dragonladytoo]

Its a template that you apply to your character.

aha, found it (wow when you don't use something for a little while, you get rusty).

Make sure on the character creation you selected the Druid wildshape on the option menu.

Now, within the character click on the classes tab.
You can now select the template by clicking under the Class level area of the screen, the 'Next Level at xxx XP'
This gives you access to the templates for the various wildshape templates. Remember that the list is alphabetical.

[blzbob]

Thanks. I didn't realize that I needed to select it in the Character Configuration. Thank you for creating this. I don't have anyone playing a druid right now but it is nice having this as an option.

[Talysian]

How do I handle Wildshape abilities in herolab?

Many thanks!

[Talysian]

No Answer? am I right in assuming this can't be done currently?

[chiefweasel]

Not sure what you mean by "handle".

[Talysian]

Is there a way to apply the stats automatically like a spell effect when they shape change? I.E. Print out a few pre determined shapes.

[Mathias]

(I've merged this with one of the many existing threads on this topic)

[ShadowChemosh]

There is an addon, created by dragonladytoo, that is available on d20pfsrd (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/hero-lab) to help with this. I have not looked at it in a long time but from what I remember it adds a bunch of adjustments that can help do some of the different forms.

Its called "PFRPG_druid_Wildshape.user" and located in the zMisc folder.

[Talysian]

Thank's guys, the only thing I'm not seeing on it is calculations for claw attacks? I'm guessing thats the Arm? just checking.

[umag]

any idea when these problems with hero lab will get actual fixes? ie. FoB with Power attack, and Shillelagh. wildshape for druids, Lead Blades (spell affects all your weapons, but only one end of a quarterstaff?

[King Joey]

Okay, I'd really like a reply on this question, too. I can't even find a way to add things like Natural Attacks and special abilities (Grab, Trample, etc.) gained from the forms. Do you just have to make paper notes and manually apply things like Size modifiers, natural armor and move speeds?

[Charender]

I pulled down the wildshape templates, and I can't say I really liked it, so I did my own implementation. I did it as a conferred Ability Bonus that you can turn on and off. This seems to work for me, and it gives you all of the animal forms Ex abilities as well(scent, low light, pounce, grab, etc). Right now I just have this one, but from here it should be easy to duplicate this for other animal and elemental forms.

<thing id="pWSTiger" name="Wild Shape(Tiger)" description="You turn into a large tiger." compset="InPlay" uniqueness="unique">
<fieldval field="pMinimum" value="1"/>
<fieldval field="pMaximum" value="1"/>
<fieldval field="pWhat" value="Wildshape"/>
<fieldval field="pSource" value="Wildshape"/>
<fieldval field="pDuration" value="1 hour/level"/>
<tag group="Helper" tag="AdjConfer" name="Conferred Ability Adjustment" abbrev="Conferred Ability Adjustment"/>
<tag group="Helper" tag="NoIncr"/>
<tag group="Helper" tag="AdjNoPlus"/>
<bootstrap thing="wBite">
<containerreq phase="First" priority="500">fieldval:pIsOn</containerreq>
<autotag group="wMain" tag="1d8_6"/>
<autotag group="Helper" tag="NatSizeDmg"/>
</bootstrap>
<bootstrap thing="wRake">
<containerreq phase="First" priority="500">fieldval:pIsOn</containerreq>
<autotag group="Value" tag="2"/>
<autotag group="wMain" tag="1d6_5"/>
<autotag group="Helper" tag="NatSizeDmg"/>
</bootstrap>
<bootstrap thing="raPounce">
<containerreq phase="First" priority="500">fieldval:pIsOn</containerreq>
</bootstrap>
<bootstrap thing="wClaw">
<containerreq phase="First" priority="500">fieldval:pIsOn</containerreq>
<autotag group="Helper" tag="NatSizeDmg"/>
<autotag group="wMain" tag="1d6_5"/>
<autotag group="Value" tag="2"/>
</bootstrap>
<bootstrap thing="raLowLight">
<containerreq phase="First" priority="500">fieldval:pIsOn</containerreq>
</bootstrap>
<bootstrap thing="xScent">
<containerreq phase="First" priority="500">fieldval:pIsOn</containerreq>
</bootstrap>
<bootstrap thing="raGrab">
<containerreq phase="First" priority="500">fieldval:pIsOn</containerreq>
</bootstrap>
<bootstrap thing="tpAnimal">
<containerreq phase="First" priority="500">fieldval:pIsOn</containerreq>
</bootstrap>
<eval phase="PreLevel" priority="10000"><![CDATA[
~ If we're not enabled, get out now
doneif (field[pIsOn].value = 0)

~ Give an Enhancement bonus to Natural AC
#enhancementbonus[hero.child[mNatural], 4]]]></eval>
<eval phase="First" priority="1000" index="2"><![CDATA[
~ If we're not enabled, get out now
doneif (field[pIsOn].value = 0)

hero.child[aSTR].field[Bonus].value += 4
hero.child[aDEX].field[Penalty].value -= 2

~ We want to increase our size by +1
var sizemod as number
sizemod = 1
call SizeChange]]></eval>
<eval phase="Final" priority="15000" index="3"> ~ Tigers only have a reach of 5
herofield[tReach].value = 5</eval>
<exprreq message="Wild Shape (Animal) required."><![CDATA[#hasability[cDrdWildAn] <> 0]]></exprreq>
</thing>

[Kythlar]

Soo.... exactly how do you implement all of that code Charender? I'm very new to the Editor - as in 6 hours ago new. Do you have to break up the code into their appropriate tabs or just enter it it all in a single place? ...So confused! I like this approach better because it gives me exactly what I need per form and not an overall template.

I have an excel file that I made that works like HL, but there's soooooo much more information in HL that I'm officially switching over. I'm wanting HL to work like my excel file. It has different tabs as whole character sheets for the different forms I may use that all were based off of my humanoid form.

[Kythlar]

So I've been doing trial and error with the code and basically ended up using each part of the code. I originally tried putting all of it an eval script, but always errors. :confused:

I've pretty much got it doing what I want now except I'm having a few issues:

(1) My BAB is being reduced by -1/-1/-1 and the deficit is being applied directly to the weapon's bonus damage while shapeshifting into a large size creature. It's not a big issue other than it' showing, at lvl 9, that my +6/+1 BAB is being reduced to +5/+0, which is effectively making me lose an additional attack if I were to show my Hero Lab to anyone else. I corrected this with putting a +1 Attack Bonus on the template itself. It appears to correct it without providing additional attack bonus anywhere, but is the proper way to correct it?

(2) I'm also having some issues with the damage. I'm doing a bootstrap directly onto the thing under the adjustment tab and not on the template using <wClaw.1d8_6> for the claw attack, which works just fine. But as dragonladytoo noted, it's not using the correct damage for a bite attack for a tiger (2d6+6). I've tried using the tags <wBite.1d8_6.> and <Helper.DamageUp> and <Helper.NatSizeDmg> to try and bump the damage up to the next "level" with numerous variations, but it's going to 3d6+6 from 1d8+6. I'm about to just make a custom bite attack under weapons and bootstrapping it.

(3) Is there any code/options for it ignore your base armor size or to simply adjust the size of the armor while the coferred ability adjustment is active? It's just a detail that I'd like to see 'cause the Armor tab being red bothers me.

(4) Is there any code/options for the attacks to show up as selectable weapons under the weapons tab? Possibly even "equip" them and un-equip your current weapon(s) and then re-equip them when the coferred ability is deactivated? Yet another detail that I'd like to have, mostly so they show up black on the weapons summary.

[Kythlar]

(2) I'm also having some issues with the damage. I'm doing a bootstrap directly onto the thing under the adjustment tab and not on the template using <wClaw.1d8_6> for the claw attack, which works just fine. But as dragonladytoo noted, it's not using the correct damage for a bite attack for a tiger (2d6+6). I've tried using the tags <wBite.1d8_6.> and <Helper.DamageUp> and <Helper.NatSizeDmg> to try and bump the damage up to the next "level" with numerous variations, but it's going to 3d6+6 from 1d8+6. I'm about to just make a custom bite attack under weapons and bootstrapping it.


(4) Is there any code/options for the attacks to show up as selectable weapons under the weapons tab? Possibly even "equip" them and un-equip your current weapon(s) and then re-equip them when the coferred ability is deactivated? Yet another detail that I'd like to have, mostly so they show up black on the weapons summary.

I just made custom weapons, added in the <wDamBonus.6> to account for the absence of it on the "Dice Damage" selection of 1d8 (Claws & Rake) and 2d6 (Bite), and bootstrapped them to the adjustment. They're working perfectly gaining both the attack's bonus damage and the Str bonus. Also, I can can select them as an "equippable weapon" if I want to since they're custom weapons; although, if I add in <Helper.NatPrimary>, it'll remove the option for "equipping" it on the Weapons tab. :D

Now I need to be able to adjust the run speed. I have tried different methods including eval scripts or field tags. Apparently, tSpeed doesn't exist in the "Hero fields", but it does exist under the "Hero Selections". I'm stumped. Any way to alter it?

[Kythlar]

>_< I was partially wrong. My BAB doesn't change, sorry for the wrong reference! it's my Attack Bonus, and I do incur the -1 Attack Bonus from shifting to a large size. Had to re-read the Attack Bonus section of the rule book and neglected to remember the size modifier part of the equation. Bummer!!!! The math is correct for my attacks. It just shows up oddly on the Basics Summary because it applies the Large size penalty directly onto the Attack Bonus; however, I do get my additional attack(s) as they show up on the melee/ranged Attack Bonus. Just a lil' confusing. I'd think the penalty would be applied directly to the melee/ranged Attack Bonus, not the overall Attack Bonus. oh well, that's another issue solved!

Now I just still need to take care of the armor size issue... any thoughts? I don't like Hero Lab telling me I can't wear my armor when it melds into my form, but at least the bonuses still apply when shifting to another size.

[Charender]

Soo.... exactly how do you implement all of that code Charender? I'm very new to the Editor - as in 6 hours ago new. Do you have to break up the code into their appropriate tabs or just enter it it all in a single place? ...So confused! I like this approach better because it gives me exactly what I need per form and not an overall template.

I have an excel file that I made that works like HL, but there's soooooo much more information in HL that I'm officially switching over. I'm wanting HL to work like my excel file. It has different tabs as whole character sheets for the different forms I may use that all were based off of my humanoid form.

Sorry, for the late response, I have been elsewhere.

The problem with putting this into the editor is that it is a collection of bootstraps, value fields, and scripts. I posted the raw xml from the save file.

Exact steps to use
1. Create a new file in the editor
2. Create a new conferred ability in the editor
3. Save the file in the editor
4. Open the editor file with a text editing program(like notepad)
5. Copy my code over the conferred ability you created in the editor.
6. Save the file in notepad
7. Reopen the file in HL editor

[lowew79]

All this coding stuff is over my head lol. No offense at all, (I can't imagine the amount of work it took to make hero lab), but that's kinda what we are paying the staff for.

Anyway, I was wondering if it was possible to just add the beast shape spells as a spell adjustment. with maybe a drop down menu to select the form?

Sorry if I sound curt, but I was really hoping hero lab would take the "pain" out of wild shape for me :-( I guess will try to decipher this coding stuff.

[risner]

add the beast shape spells as a spell adjustment. with maybe a drop down menu to select the form?

They (HL Staff) have been working on something like this for over a year now. It is harder than it sounds.

I've looked at doing this and instead I just implement each form I take as a one-off adjustment. I've not released them as they are very specialized and make use of custom code that I have changed to the base system.

In short, it is hard to do.

[ShadowChemosh]

Yep in total agreement with risner that its not that easy actually and when HL does fix it hopefully it will fix all the polymorpth spell affects at the same time.

You may also wish to take at look at my adjustments addon (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?p=58343#post58343). Its not specifically made for Wildshape but it does have allot of adjustments that allow one to add "natural" attacks to a character. You may find just setting up a bunch of adjustments to turn on/off useful.

Update: my gaming addon now has Beast Shape spell adjustments. :)

[Adunaphel]

All this coding stuff is over my head lol. No offense at all, (I can't imagine the amount of work it took to make hero lab), but that's kinda what we are paying the staff for.

I was searching for a solution to the wild shape ability, too and to be true I do not have the time nor the patience to use the editor with the more than absolutely basic functions.
As wild shaping is a basic function of a core class I really consider this a core requirement of a software solution and would be glad if HL will support this soon. The missing implementation is clearly not a missing feature but a bug.

But I do not want to sound too harsh, so any official workaround is welcome, e.g. automated excel-export and a excel-file with predefined animals.

There will be some months before my druid hits level four :p, so I trust on the developers.

Adu

[ShadowChemosh]

I was searching for a solution to the wild shape ability, too and to be true I do not have the time nor the patience to use the editor with the more than absolutely basic functions.
As wild shaping is a basic function of a core class I really consider this a core requirement of a software solution and would be glad if HL will support this soon. The missing implementation is clearly not a missing feature but a bug.

But I do not want to sound too harsh, so any official workaround is welcome, e.g. automated excel-export and a excel-file with predefined animals.

There will be some months before my druid hits level four :p, so I trust on the developers.

Adu
My gaming addon (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?p=58343#post58343) has fully working beast shape spell adjustments now. Why it's not really good to go with threads a year old as fact. Allot happens here in a year.