Shield as a Weapon

[B0X315]

Any know how to show shield bash attacks? I'm making a TWF Fighter that uses a Bastard sword and a Light shield. I see all the feats are there, but no Idea how to set it as an offhand weapon or even enchant it as a weapon. Any help would be great, thanks.

[ogexam]

Add spikes to it.

Oh but then if you have shield mastery tree where you no longer take two weapon penalties it gets all messed up... I have not figured out how to put that one in directly.

I faked it by creating a new weapon called light shield +3 (mastery)
Then I make it a +5 weapon to make up for the too hit bonus... though now your damage is off...

[B0X315]

Hmmm. You could just make it a Adjusted Weapon Bonus, under the 'adjust' tab.

[ogexam]

There is an adjust tab?

Man I need to learn the kewl details of Herolabs... argh

[ShadowChemosh]

Couldn't you just create a new weapon in the Editor called "Shield Bash, Light" for example. Then give it the correct damage and have it cost nothing and weigh nothing as that would be taken care of by the shield itself. Give it the correct type of proficiency and the damage depending on it is light or heavy. All that can be done with just a bunch of mouse clicks and no scripting.

Modifying the Shield Feats would require some script changes, but they should be pretty easy.

Just an idea.

[Theocrat]

Also note the new errata for a magical weapon - the bonus cannot be higher than +10 including character abilities and spells.

[ShadowChemosh]

As I figured this would come up in my games sooner or later I went ahead and created a new .user file that has two new weapons called Shield Bash, Light and Shield Bash, Heavy. I also modified the feat Shield Mastery to now correctly apply its bonus to these two new weapons. For the extra fun I went ahead and scripted the Bashing power to actually increase the die size of the two new shield weapons without actually increasing the effort required to wield larger weapons. :)

You can download the file from d20pfsrd (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/hero-lab) under the Misc folder near the bottom of the page.

[Mathias]

Also note the new errata for a magical weapon - the bonus cannot be higher than +10 including character abilities and spells.

Theocrat, don't read more into that errata than it's actually saying - yes, looked at on the errata page, it looks like it's implementing some new rule restricting the total bonus that you can achieve on a weapon, but compare it to the old version of that sentance, and it's not changing much.

The only thing it's changing is that spells and abilities that alter the enhancement bonus + effective bonus from weapon/armor powers can't take that total above 10.

So, if you have a 20th level Paladin with the Divine Bond - Weapon ability, and your weapon is already a +4 Dancing weapon (effective total +8), you can only add +2 worth of additional abilities, even though the Divine Bond ability for a 20th level Paladin would normally let you add +6 worth of enhancements (so sell your super-weapon and buy a +4 weapon with no powers, and you'll have lots of cash left over).

Similarly, if you cast Greater Magic Weapon + 5 on a +4, Holy, Dancing Weapon (effective total +10), it doesn't gain any enhancement bonus.

[ShadowChemosh]

The only thing it's changing is that spells and abilities that alter the enhancement bonus + effective bonus from weapon/armor powers can't take that total above 10.

Yep that is spot on Mathias and one of the more clear explanations of the ruling I have read.

[blzbob]

As I figured this would come up in my games sooner or later I went ahead and created a new .user file that has two new weapons called Shield Bash, Light and Shield Bash, Heavy. I also modified the feat Shield Mastery to now correctly apply its bonus to these two new weapons. For the extra fun I went ahead and scripted the Bashing power to actually increase the die size of the two new shield weapons without actually increasing the effort required to wield larger weapons. :)

You can download the file from d20pfsrd (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/hero-lab) under the Misc folder near the bottom of the page.

Thank you for this. When I equip the shield as armor and as a weapon, I get the validation error. As a DM and player I don't have a problem with this but I was wondering if you knew how to fix it.

Never mind, now it's working fine. I don't know what happened but everything is ok.

[ShadowChemosh]

Thank you for this. When I equip the shield as armor and as a weapon, I get the validation error. As a DM and player I don't have a problem with this but I was wondering if you knew how to fix it.

Never mind, now it's working fine. I don't know what happened but everything is ok.
Hmm. I think I see what is happening actually. If you equip a Shield(as armor), a Shield(as weapon) and one-handed weapon HL will complain correctly as you don't have three hands. :eek:

Guess I didn't test everything after all. :) Will take a look this weekend at it and see if I can correct the error. One way would be to bootstrap the weapons to the shields, but then that would mean that one would always get a Shield Bash weapon when outfitted with a shield. Not something I would want to do as I have to say its more common to NOT shield bash.

Thanks for letting me know and trying it out. :)

[ShadowChemosh]

So looked into this and I did fix some issues, but the main one I can't figure out how to fix. If one equips and shield and a off-hand HL will complain, but the values it does show are correct.

The other issue I found is that if you don't have the Two-Weapon fighting feat you can't have your printed character sheet show the correct values for when using two weapons. :(

I uploaded a new version with some fixes to d20pfsrd (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/hero-lab).

Unless Mathias can point out some hidden tag or something I can use to A) prevent HL from showing an error with a shield and off-hand being equipped and B) to have the printed sheet show the correct values for using two weapons without the two-weapon fighting feat its the best its going to get.

[Lawful_g]

Look at bucklers maybe? They can be equipped along with an off hand weapon.

[ShadowChemosh]

Look at bucklers maybe? They can be equipped along with an off hand weapon.
Nice thank you. Don't know how I forgot about those, but that had a tag that stops the errors.

I have uploaded a new version tod20pfsrd (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/hero-lab). I also put the same fix in for some of the items from the Adventurer's Armory (ie Madu) also.

Thanks

[blzbob]

That did the trick. Awesome! My players are going to be happy. The knight is going to be especially happy.

[Mathias]

Just as a heads up, I've finally gotten shield bashing finished, and added to HL for the next update.

(It took forever, but I've got it properly handling enchanting the attack stats, separately from the defense stats, along with all the shield bashing feats, the bashing power and shield spikes)

[ogexam]

Woot!

[ShadowChemosh]

Just as a heads up, I've finally gotten shield bashing finished, and added to HL for the next update.

Nice!

Will have to take a look to see how you did it so I can mimic it for the Madu shields from AA.

[Mathias]

Actually, I think the Klar is still the best option to copy for the weapon-shields like Klars, Scizore, etc. The options I've created can only be chosen from the shield tab, and the weapon version always shows up in the custom weapons section.

I decided that the light and heavy shields are armor that happens to have a use as a weapon. Users are going to be looking for them on the Armor tab. The Klar/Scizore/etc. are both weapons and armor, and users will want to see them in both places.

[Bishop37]

Will it work sort of like gauntlets do for armor, automatically appearing in the weapons tab when you equip the armor, or will shields be a separate weapon that you have to add and configure?

[Mathias]

Actually, the weapon stats are added to the weapon tab once you add the shield. That way, you can equip the shield when you want to get the shield AC, equip the weapon when you want to shield bash, or both if you have the Improved Shield Bashing feat.

Since the masterwork/enchantment bonuses as a weapon are separate from the masterwork/enchantment bonuses as a shield, all the shields show up in the custom weapons section, with an edit button that allows you to go in and edit the weapon enchantments after you've added the shield.

[ShadowChemosh]

Actually, I think the Klar is still the best option to copy for the weapon-shields like Klars, Scizore, etc. The options I've created can only be chosen from the shield tab, and the weapon version always shows up in the custom weapons section.
Yep that is what I have done so far with some additional coding to do for Shield Bash attacks. Are these new HL Shield Bash weapons special Things like Spiked Armor that we will have no access to from the editor?

[Mathias]

The weapon stats for the shields are set up as specific weapons (they're on the Weapon, Magic tab). There's also a helper that stores the stats that's a regular weapon - the actual pick adds the helper to its gizmo, so that it can retrieve the stats like any other specific weapon would, and so that when you're modifying the enchantment, it's properly set up as wood or metal, and a bashing weapon, so that materials and item powers can check their prereqs properly.

(FYI, the shield spikes were moved out of that special armor-weapon category and remade as a normal item power, since all they now need to do is modify the weapon stats that are bootstrapped by that shield).

[xanthemann]

Personally I have been trying to create a battle gauntlet. Basically an articulated metal sleeve with a shield wrapped around the end, but keeping the hand free. It is to provide protection as a shield, but can also be used to bash the mess out of people and/or creatures.

The problem I have run into is similar to what I have read here. What would be the best way to properly represent this in both weapon and armor?

[BeardedBobomb]

Hey guys, sorry to revive an old thread. But I'm making a shield basher and have a shield in Hero Lab, it's equipped as a shield but I see nothing in the Weapon tab in order to use it as a shield. I found this thread but the .user file is no longer available to include as a fix. What am I missing? I can sometimes find my way around in the Editor, so if I need to make the change myself I can try to do so.