Tactical Console & effects tracking

[Fnordboy]

Hey HL gurus,

I'm curious if you have any plans to implement the tracking of spell effects or conditional modifiers to the HL engine. It's a hassle to manually switch off all the modifiers which expire on round X, or turn Y.

Some buttons on the "In Play" tab would be great.

(Round)(turn)(Minutes)(Hours)(days)
click it, or enter the # and click it, and the console edits all the effects and switches off all the expired ones, or at least kicks out a red flag for expired ones, so that the user can uncheck them.

[Segallion]

This is something that would be a great enhancement.

[Mathias]

It is something we've discussed among ourselves, but it turns out to be a very large can of worms in terms of what needs to be activated and deactivated at what time - there is such a large variety in durations in the Pathfinder files.

This is currently on the back burner, I'm afraid.

[Fnordboy]

I understand that this would be a big project, thanks for it's consideration, at the very least. :(

[Cutter]

How about something a bit simpler Mathias? Just decrement any timers by one each round and pop up a timer expiration message - that would at least automate the tracking of time, of course we would then have to go remove any affects on other creatures, but that still would be very useful.

[Segallion]

Would it be possible to just set it to rounds? That way once you ended that one person's turn, it would just subtract one from the duration field for each status being tracked with a duration.

[Kendall-DM]

If you just set it to combat rounds, you never have to worry about the actual real time durations. So, for example, if rounds are 6 seconds each, the DM can extrapolate how long something last, like say Mage Armor, which 600 rounds per level, though in a combat situation, this is tantamount to a permanent adjustment. Or if some system has 1 minute rounds, then you as the DM can just adjust accordingly, such that Mage Armor now last 60 rounds per level. It's just manual input with a countdown counter, with a popup as above, allowing the DM to remove conditions or effects from the character at that time. Hell, d20Pro already does it, so I don't know why that is really a "can of worms". Maybe I'm missing something here.

Or do it like TrackWorks does, just a simplistic timer that shows effects have expired as per the tactical rounds input by the DM according to his or her game system. It can easily be just an isolated system from the HeroLab console itself (outside of applying or removing effects, which is left to the GM still). This tactical console is SUCH an improvement from TrackWorks, that I want to use it exclusively. However, my biggest problem with almost all tactical console systems is that effects and conditions have multiple durations, such that it becomes a nightmare to figure out what effect has expired or not without some sort of duration tracking. Like I said, TrackWorks does it, and I can just name the effect, but it's nice to also be able to apply the effect like the HL tactical console does. We already check and uncheck conditions and create and delete effects, what's a simple isolated timer that adds the duration to the current round, and compares that duration to the current round to indicate whether the DM needs to have the condition/effect expire? Hell, I'll work on it if you want me to, for free.

[hangarflying]

Sorry for the thread necro, but I've been curious about this too.

For me, this would be most useful while using the tactical console. If a creature/character is affected by a condition, check the condition and enter the number of rounds the condition is in effect. If permanent, maybe offer a check box or indicate that the letter "P" (or some non-number entry) in the "Rounds" area. Each time the tactical console cycles through that character, the rounds are decreased by one. As long as "Rounds" != 0, then the condition affects the creature; if "Rounds" = 0 then the condition no longer applies.

But, I definitely understand how this might not be as easy to implement as it is for me to describe. ;-)

[Kendall-DM]

With two added features, the TC would be the best on the market bar none. Duration tracking of course, where the TC auto-deselects when the round limit is met. The other is a way to group select an effect on heroes. These two things alone slow down the combat experience in my game far too much, that if fixed, would really streamline the process.

While I'm on the subject, there are a few GUI layout changes that are needed (for the d20 system at least, and possibly Pathfinder).
1. A separate mouse-over list for feats and special abilities (currently lumped together) would be nice.
2. Better display of weapon choices and weapon damage, including both ranged and melee (rather than just melee).
3. Displaying the space/reach on the info mouse-over.
4. Base attack bonus without the size modifications (minor issue).

[Adunaphel]

This is my first post after registration and this is exat the thread I need.
I used TOS+ up until now but there is not enough group interaction with those singular excel sheets.
But I am to a countdown of the duration of conditions. When the initiative is over, there should should be one round deducted from each condition, except those with permanent.
Have I missed the integration of this feature or is it truly gone to the backlist?

[Vercingetorix]

I am planning to use the tactical console in my next session, and this condition counter is the most obvious missing feature. Please move it off the back burner.

[Weasel]

Just came here trying to find out if I am doing something wrong in the tactical console for tracking effects, I guess not. I am very surprised that HL does not have a tactical console tracker, especially when a lower end product that I use to use, Combat Manager, does.

I cannot see it being a 'can of worms' to add a round tracker to the tactical console that subtracts 1 each time the affected player has his action button clicked.:(

Please add this feature.:D

[Colen]

Just came here trying to find out if I am doing something wrong in the tactical console for tracking effects, I guess not. I am very surprised that HL does not have a tactical console tracker, especially when a lower end product that I use to use, Combat Manager, does.

I cannot see it being a 'can of worms' to add a round tracker to the tactical console that subtracts 1 each time the affected player has his action button clicked.:(

Please add this feature.:D

I lament the lack of this feature for my Pathfinder games as well. :( Unfortunately we can only work on these features so fast - right now, 100% of our data file author time is being spent on entering content from Bestiary 5, and before that Inner Sea Races, and before that Occult Adventures, and before that we were spending a lot of time on the encounter library, and before that...

Once Bestiary 5 is out we'll hopefully have a chance to regroup and work on some projects like these, but there are always a ton of things people want for Pathfinder, so I'm not sure how we'll be able to prioritize it. Sorry I can't give you better news.

[Techno]

This is a much-needed and basic feature to make the tactical console function the way it should. Having to do all the effects tracking manually doesn't make sense. Please fix this. Thanks.

[Azhrei]

Unfortunately we can only work on these features so fast
Perhaps the pieces necessary for the TC can be opened up for the community to make the changes?

There are obviously some very knowledgeable and talented people here (looking at you, ShadowChemosh ;)) who could probably work wonders with it.

Look at it this way: customers have been asking for some feature additions for 5 years (based on this thread alone) and LW doesn't have the resources to devote to it. The product gets sub-par reviews for this piece for that reason and that clearly can't be good for business.

Put a license on the TC files that says all modifications are owned by their respective author, but all rights are non-exclusively provided to LW for integration. (Basically a "share-alike" license similar to those found at CreativeCommons.org; in fact, that's probably a good place to go to look for appropriate license templates.)

Thanks for thinking about it, at least!

[Exmortis]

This is my first post after registration and this is exat the thread I need.
I used TOS+ up until now but there is not enough group interaction with those singular excel sheets.
But I am to a countdown of the duration of conditions. When the initiative is over, there should should be one round deducted from each condition, except those with permanent.
Have I missed the integration of this feature or is it truly gone to the backlist?

Be careful where you mention TOS+, as it is essentially a pirate product.

[Anrik]

Would it be possible to just set it to rounds? That way once you ended that one person's turn, it would just subtract one from the duration field for each status being tracked with a duration.

So this was brought up 6 years ago. Is there any chance this is now being addressed?

[Ualaa]

I used a product called DM Genie, for 3.x edition of the game.

When our group moved to Pathfinder, I used a combination of Hero Lab to build the characters and Combat Manager to import them, as Combat Manager can select multiple groups (all friendly or all hostile) which makes an AoE Fireball much easier. Input the 24 damage, and then either check full damage (those who failed saves), half damage (those who made saves, or failed but have improved evasion), or uncheck the boxes of any who have evasion and made saves.

Ultimately, being able to add a condition, be it fighting defensively or a buff/debuff being applied during a combat, and not having to save a portfolio within hero lab and then re-importing it to Combat Manager... made Hero Lab 'Tactical Console' the better of the two incomplete options. Also, Combat Manager sometimes fails to import certain aspects and then you need to manually give current/max hit points for six creatures before combat begins... another point in favor of Hero Lab.

The functionality I miss the most of Combat Manager is applying damage (and the option of checking half damage) to groups, all in one go.
DM Genie had the full functionality of Combat Manager plus the Tactical Console, which rocked for 3.x.

Even if the enhanced functionality was offered as a purchasable option, it would be worth it for me.

[MNBlockHead]

Just another post begging for this features. I use HL with D&D 5th Edition. Effects time tracking an obvious gap.

[Farling]

Just another post begging for this features. I use HL with D&D 5th Edition. Effects time tracking an obvious gap.

I've wanted the time tracking options too.

However as soon as the characters reach 6th level or above then the 1 round/level buffs usually last longer than the fight.

[Azhrei]

However as soon as the characters reach 6th level or above then the 1 round/level buffs usually last longer than the fight.
True, as long as the characters are single-classed. Multi classed characters might still be relatively low-level in terms of spellcasters, and for some classes the issues go beyond a single encounter (like the bard's abilities which have durations tracked per day, so while inspire courage might last the entire combat, it's useful for the bard to know how many rounds they have left at any given time).

In general, I agree that at higher levels, most effects will last the entire combat. It doesn't change the need for tracking, though. Or for some of the other features requested here, such as being able to select multiple targets and apply AoE spells like fireball easily and quickly. An interface that allows individual targets to be selected, then those targets rolling an appropriate save before damage is applied, is very useful -- particularly at higher levels when there are more of those effects and more minions with special abilities related to those effects.

In DMGenie, combatants could be selected individually or as a group (allies vs. enemies). A dropdown would then be activated so that the type of roll could be selected (any of the skills or saves, plus others like Grapple or Initiative (when starting a combat)). The tool would then make for roll for all affected creatures and a dialog would popup allowing the GM to roll (or enter) damage and apply the damage using either Full, Full (save for half), or Full (save negates). And Evasion and similar (like SR) would be taken care of for each individual creature. It was/is a hugely powerful feature that you might not appreciate without having used it!

Cheers!

[Ualaa]

In our last Gestalt game, the players would buff up to a degree that they had to choose which round per level buffs to use latest, as the earliest ones would expire while they were still putting buffs onto each other.

That really reduced the party to wanting a single encounter per day.

[Farling]

That really reduced the party to wanting a single encounter per day.

Yes, this makes for quite a boring campaign: and requires powering up encounters to cope with it.

[Ualaa]

The next one will at least prevent that somewhat.
Rise of the Drow (Adventure A Week).

They're trying to catch someone, initially at least.
If they want to rest after one fight, their quarry escapes.

Resource management is something that adds to the game.